Anthony Pompliano
How to Find the Next 10x Stock Before Everyone Else
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TL;DR
Research summary
▶ Bitcoin, retail investors and leadership
The speaker opens with Bitcoin: he says his model turned bullish on August 14, while Poly Market had assigned a 3% chance on August 12 that Bitcoin would end August at $70K; it ended at $79K. He uses this as an example that crowd wisdom can be wrong. The discussion turns to retail investors’ growing importance to public companies. One speaker says companies want to engage retail holders but there is no established formula; openness, authenticity and transparency, including video earnings calls, may help. The guest adds that AI can make research and organizing easier, but effective shareholder campaigns still need leaders willing to step forward.
▶ Using AI for investment research
Asked how he uses AI in investing, the guest says broad prompts such as asking for the next OpenDoor or Carvana have not been fruitful and can waste money on tokens. He finds it more useful for complex comparisons, such as identifying how competing companies differ and what advantages one may have. He also describes preferences among the LLMs he uses: ChatGPT for creative work such as writing posts or presentations, Claude as a workhorse, and Kimi for programming and website redesign. These are his personal assessments.
▶ Hut 8’s Riverbend data center thesis
The guest describes visiting Hut 8’s Riverbend campus, a 649-acre site about half an hour north of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and says seeing the construction changed his understanding of the company and data center competitors he had invested in for about a year and a half. He recounts land clearing, large construction teams, contractors and cooling systems, Hut 8 staff coordinating work on site since February, and the substantial transformers and substations required for power. He describes local political and community support at the event, contrasting it with claims he had heard that data centers are widely opposed. His investment thesis is that data center development requires difficult coordination to bring large amounts of power online economically, and that Hut 8 may be especially capable at this, though he calls the opportunity unproven. He says Riverbend raised $3.5 billion in non-recourse debt rather than diluting shareholders, while other unnamed players used large equity offerings. He estimates Hut 8 may need to borrow about $10 billion to build the project; he cites Google financial backing, Fluidstack and Anthropic as parts of the setup, and estimates that lighting the campus could create about $15 billion of additional value. He describes reinvesting value into projects such as Beacon Point in East Texas without equity offerings as the company’s plan. He concludes that he considers the stock misunderstood, while the account also makes clear that the construction, financing and value creation remain dependent on execution.
▶ Sponsor advertisements
An advertisement for Arch Public says its automated trading platform now covers stocks, commodities and ETFs as well as crypto, and promotes rules-based profit taking and capital rotation, plus crypto tax-loss harvesting. A separate Simple Mining advertisement describes buying Bitcoin miners hosted at its Iowa facilities, claims access to industrial power rates and direct transfer of mined Bitcoin to the buyer’s wallet, and promotes potential year-one depreciation deductions for qualifying buyers. It also cites financing availability, more than 40,000 machines, an Inc. 5000 ranking and a free 2026 Bitcoin mining blueprint. These are advertising claims, not the guest’s investment analysis.
▶ Conviction, mistakes and daily work
Asked how he distinguishes an overlooked opportunity from being wrong, the guest says investing involves trial and error and accepting that he can be wrong or early. He cites OpenDoor’s rise from his entry around 70 cents to nearly $11, then says the stock has struggled since and argues that nothing is wrong with the company or its CEO. He describes a broader market selloff in SaaS as containing some truth but also creating opportunities to distinguish winners from weaker companies; he expects patient OpenDoor investors may eventually be rewarded, an opinion rather than a certainty. He says he makes daily videos, with his son suggesting a social-media campaign around OpenDoor and later business-focused hip-hop commentary. He describes attracting some followers interested in hip-hop who then became interested in investing. His workday also includes monitoring markets, using AI to understand interest-rate moves and their possible effects on portfolio companies, and developing longer-form content; he says he likes switching between tasks.
▶ Portfolio construction and timing
The guest characterizes himself as a risk-tolerant, concentrated investor who holds smaller growth names. He names Hut 8, OpenDoor, Nextdoor and Dave, which he describes as making roughly $200 payday-type loans through a Plaid integration. He also says he is strongly focused on crypto and that it represents about 90% of what he plays in and thinks about in terms of exposure. He identifies being too early as a major investing mistake: a thesis may take two years to become visible to the market. He therefore asks whether a differentiated story is timely and nearing an inflection, including whether revenue growth could accelerate from 10% to 30%, and says experience from mistakes taught him to ask these questions.
▶ Selling discipline and Bitcoin market-regime models
The guest says an optimist may hold too long and believe too strongly in a story. For individual stocks, he reassesses whether he was right about management, whether he was early, and whether a recent quarterly miss was a blip or a sign of a more serious business change. He then describes AI models he developed around Bitcoin and sold to SRXH; he says the deal was announced the previous December, closed in June, and is being put into use, with an announcement that week about turning it into an ETF. The model classifies Bitcoin conditions as bull, mixed/choppy or bear and, according to him, gives about 30 days’ advance notice of regime changes. He says it indicated stress when Bitcoin was around $77K on May 26, before it reached about $58K six weeks later; on August 14 it indicated a return to a mixed market at $62K before Bitcoin rose as high as about $87K. He says it returned to stress when Bitcoin was around $84K a week before the conversation and remained there at the time, despite his own bullish instinct. He acknowledges the model is not always right and argues that a working model can help reduce emotional trading. A brief exchange notes the signal might turn positive again, underscoring that it can change.
▶ Where to find the guest and closing view
The guest points listeners to EMJ Capital, identifies SRXH as the company associated with his Bitcoin model, and mentions his website Event Horizon. He describes Event Horizon as using AI models to identify where prediction markets such as Kalshi and Poly Market may be overly bullish or bearish on subjects including crypto prices, politics and Supreme Court decisions. He cautions that the models are not always right. As a closing example, he repeats that Poly Market gave Bitcoin only a 3% chance of ending August at $70K, while it ended at $79K, and says AI can supplement crowd intelligence in identifying opportunities. The hosts thank him.
Full transcript
[0:00] You know, obviously Bitcoin had the big jump in August, right? And I said our model kind of flipped on said, you know, get bullish on August 14th. On August 12th on Poly Market, you uh there was 3% odds [music] on Poly Market that Bitcoin would would end the month of August at 70K. 3%. Um obviously like [music] Bitcoin had a had a run and it ended the month at 79K. So the wisdom of crowds is not always correct. Let's talk first about uh the retail investor and the rise of the retail investor has
[0:31] completely changed I think public markets and most people will point to the open doors the GameStops you know a variety of other companies but I don't think folks realize that a lot of public company CEOs reach out to me they probably reach out to you there's a couple of other folks and they're like I want to engage with the retail investor how do I do that what what and it's my takeaway is just like the retail investor is important now to them what have you seen you've been doing just a while. How has that changed throughout your career? >> Yeah, I definitely think that's the case. I mean, I think we had that
[1:02] conversation before I joined the board of Sylvia um about that and how to engage that important stakeholder group. Uh so there are a lot of companies thinking that way. I think that uh [laughter] >> they got me twice. >> Be careful. These these these bottles are popping. Um, so I think everybody wants to get retail on their side. I don't think there's a cookie cutter way to do that or, you know, established
[1:32] wisdom. But I mean, some pretty basic things are be open, be authentic, be transparent, you know, just just like, you know, it it goes for politicians as much as it does for CEOs of companies. um you want to make people feel you're a human being. So doing things like having video earnings calls as opposed to just hiding behind an audio only earnings call I think is a like an easy layup way to engage with people. Um
[2:04] but um the other I mean there's another point about the rise of retail. I think people assume like oh AI exists now. It's never been easier for retail to kind of rally support. I I don't think uh that's totally true. And what I mean by that is that at the end of the day, for any online campaign, you know, group of of of shareholders to really have a of a a powerful effect on companies, it takes leadership. You know, leadership matters
[2:36] in the military, leadership matters in community organizations, and leadership matters online, too. Just because AI is great doesn't mean that things automatically happen. Like all like I have uh ex you know subscription subscribers right and I once a week I do this like AMA like hey guys you know ask me anything join the spaces you know come up step up to the mic and just ask me a question. And um I'm often surprised that you know people
[3:07] a lot of people prefer to kind of hide you know stand back and ask a text question not not even like just ask a you know just hold the mic and I I think you know so the opportunity for retail to gather it still needs somebody to kind of want to step up on the soap box and say hey let's do this let's do that. It doesn't just like happen amorphously like from the the the mob like getting together. And so I there's never been a
[3:38] better time in human history for retail to have an impact because AI makes it so easy and AI makes getting to know a company and its strengths and weaknesses easier. But at the end of the day like we, you know, individually have to kind of step up and make a difference ourselves and and and lead. >> This room is full of independent investors. there are thousands of them watching online right now. Uh you are probably one of the most uh prolific users of AI in your research and your investment strategy in the identification of opportunities but also
[4:08] the diligence of those opportunities. Can you just walk us through how are you using the technology and maybe how could people in this room use the technology to better enhance their investment approach? >> Well, like I use it a lot. Absolutely. And um you know this is not going to be a surprise probably to most people in this room but obviously like you can waste a lot of money on tokens and I have um and the simplistic queries like what's the
[4:38] next open door you know like show me the next open door that I can get behind the next Carvana or something usually doesn't yield much fruit. So, the way that I've used it in my own research is um uh to try to get at the more complicated questions like if you see a space where uh there are a bunch of players going after it and you don't and and you don't really understand like what differentiates one versus the other like trying to uh unpack that and do some use AI to try to say hey company A
[5:10] is doing it this way, company B is doing it that way. um why why are they doing it going at it differently? What what advantage does the second company have over the first? I find like there's like much more like unlocks for me in uh asking those kinds of questions. And the other thing I'd say is, you know, people again probably have have realized this, but there's a big difference between the different um LLMs out there, right? So, you know, I personally find chat GPT is the most like artistic uh of them. Like
[5:41] so if I'm want to write a tweet or hey I want to do a put a PowerPoint together like I usually find I get the best results from that you know cloud is good and it's kind of like a good workhorse and I use it a lot but I don't find that same pizzazz with it. But uh if I'm if I'm thinking about programming and actually coding or redesigning like a website that I'm working on or something like that surprisingly I find Kimmy to be the best. um you know it's the most thorough the most uh kind of detail
[6:12] oriented and um so you know what tools to leverage you know to get what kind of outcome is you know what I'd say >> one of the companies you've been involved in is uh HUD 8 and uh they seem to be uh doing very well um they obviously [clears throat] have seen significant move in their stock price but you recently went down and saw one of the data center campuses that they're building uh and we were just talking about how inspirational maybe how incredible it is to actually like see it. Can you describe to people like what's happening when you go and you
[6:43] visit one of these sites and you know we talk about using AI but like there is hardware and construction and power and land and all this stuff that is really being built to empower us to use it. >> Yeah, for sure. It was like I mean it's a good example of how you could sit be behind a screen all day and you could think that you know oh I know iron cipher hut 8 you know what what differentiates nebius cororeweave um and I've been investing in you know in those names for you know probably the last year and a half um and I I think I I
[7:15] thought I knew them but this was the first time that I actually went down physically and toured uh you know a you know a campus that was being developed. It's 649 acres. It's called Riverbend. It's about a half an hour north of Baton Rouge in Louisiana. And uh I was saying to Anthony before this, you know, you you get in Baton Rouge, pretty small airport, like you know, pretty small town, even though they've got LSU there and everything, but when you drive out 30 minutes outside, like you see the the
[7:45] the old world and the new world, right? You know, you see like a suburban town and then you all of a sudden you see these like oil refineries from Shell or Exon Mobile or whatever that are big but, you know, rusting, you know, and not not all that new. Obviously, the old ways that a lot of people in that in those communities uh made made money. And then you keep going and going and you're basically in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden 649 acres opens up, you know, just in the middle
[8:16] of a forest that they are with. You've got cats everywhere clearing land, you know, leveling uh hundreds of people teaming, you know, building out this site uh for this campus, a massive site. Uh and uh Jacobs was like the the engineer um contractor of choice there. you see like a whole section devoted to Verdive, the company that does a cooling systems and stuff. Hut's got about 15 people who live physically have been on the site since February. They live in
[8:47] Baton Rouge. They commute every way uh to the campus and they're kind of like the the conductors like they've got to coordinate all these different folks from the workers on uh on on up uh to you know to know how to build it. And until I was there, I a I'd never seen transformers that big or substations that big. Like the power that these kinds of sites need is truly phenomenal. And just how massive this was. And this
[9:17] was just phase one of the first campus. And uh there were a ton of politicians there. Like I drove up in my rental car. There was like some big tent that United Rentals is making bank, you know, off of these things. Like United Rentals and CAT. Now I understand why their stocks are way up in the last 5 years building out these data centers. Um, but I go into this 110. I I thought I was going in the right entrance. It turns out I was going in the back entrance. All of a sudden like Don Jr. comes out with like about eight secret service arounding him all kind of looking me up and down like I'm going to jump him or something. Uh
[9:47] the the governor of Louisiana was there. Uh and it was a total love fest like you know the the community was happy that all these people were there building out this campus. um the CEO Asher Gnut who's 32. He's like a super smart guy. He's not that well known. So I think Hut ends up being kind of a misunderstood company but and he spoke like a total politician. He was talking he wasn't talking about engineering. He wasn't talking about AI at all. He spent his whole speech uh talking about people
[10:17] people in the community and so forth and you know how this thing was just one of like 10 sites that they looked forward to developing in Louisiana. So, if you were dropped in from a from a spaceship, you would have and and and then uh you attended this event and then later on that day somebody come up to you and said, "Hey, did you know that everybody hates AI data centers, you know, and they're banning them, you know, and and they think they're evil and they're, you know, you know, you just wouldn't you wouldn't have believed it had you been down there in Louisiana because like these politicians, you know, they
[10:47] couldn't couldn't get enough of this." So um but I I I sort of unders better understood that you know for all these companies Navas or whatever I mean we all hear these these news releases that they're getting these like $20 billion 5year contracts and so forth from Microsoft or whoever but there's a real coordination challenge like and it's not uh just cookie cutter again and so I think the opportunity exists for companies like a hut and I think they do it better than
[11:18] most to show to the world cuz it's sort of like unproven right now. This is like the first of like a big campus that are developing that they can they they're they could be the best at this coordination game because the coordination game is how you you light up megawws and then you know gigawatts of power and and how you do it economically. That's the other thing is that they had raised for this one riverband site they raised $ three and a half billion in non-reourse debt instead
[11:48] of diluting their shareholders. Now there have been other players I won't mention them that big you know $6 billion like equity offerings and stuff like that diluting to and and and justified it saying like hey you know this is going to be you know bet all we'll all be better off in the long run but they's taking a risk and but they're and and it's a race to like how quickly can you get this this campus built how quickly can you coordinate all these different you know people together to get get this thing
[12:18] lit up and then once you do you derisk the whole project. So for them they'll probably have to borrow something like $10 billion you know from the beginning to to line up you know and they've got Google backstopping them financially they got fluid stack they got the they landed their anchor tenant in anthropic for this place but and once all those pieces are in place and the thing's lit my calculations are they probably have created like a $15 billion of e extra value that didn't exist before. So on
[12:50] top of the 10 billion that you know that paying that back. So their plan is okay now we create an extra 15 billion okay we're going to put in the next project. So they got something Beacon Point in Texas East Texas I think it is and then it'll once they get the 15 billion or 20 billion from that project in into the next one and all the while not diluting the shareholders with these these like equity offerings. So um I came away thinking like hey this is one of the most misunderstood stocks out there. Usually that's a good sign cuz that's that's what Carvana had in common.
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[15:50] simplemining.io/p. That's simplemining.io/p. Go check it out today. I like that you describe it this way because I think um in a weird way the retail investors have been right way more than they've been wrong. And now I think Wall Street is waking up to the fact that they have to follow or pay attention to the retail investor which is the opposite of the narrative. When you find these things that are misunderstood, how do you build the conviction to know that you're right and
[16:20] not just like it's not that I'm different and right, I'm just different and dumb essentially, right? Cuz the market is pricing something else and and I mis uh analyze this. >> I mean, I think it's just trial and error. I mean, you got and you got to accept the fact that you're going to be wrong, you know, some some sometimes uh or uh too early. You know, I've, you know, Open Door worked great. You know, LA, you know, last year, uh, stock went on a, you know, killer like two year two month run from like 50, you know, well,
[16:50] I got in like in the 70 cent range to like 11 bucks almost in, uh, uh, September when we were, you know, here last year, I think, pretty it was pretty close to the top. And then obviously the stock struggled since then. Um, nothing's wrong with the stock. Nothing's wrong with Cass as you guys probably know from uh I don't think there's anybody that could be doing a better job but there are these times where uh the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater in the sector like we saw you know earlier this year like um you know all SAS stocks were going to be
[17:21] should have been dead by now according to the the conventional wisdom and uh yet you know last I looked Crowd Strike's up 125% on the year you know Twilio's up 100% on the year but there are some stocks in that space like Zoom the the Zoom info is down a ton. So, I mean, there was there was a kernel of truth in the conventional wisdom, but then there was the opportunity to kind of like, you know, sort through and find the real winners and take advantage of that, you know, moment in time where like everybody got to one side of the
[17:51] boat. So, I think um you know, Open Door is going to be proven to be uh one of those cases of that when we look back in a year or two or three that you know, yeah, it was unfairly punished during this. I guess it made sense because the tenure was really ripping and all that kind of stuff. But, uh, they were doing all the right things and, you know, for the patient ones, I think they'll be paid off. >> I think a lot of people are fascinated by you in that, uh, you're not scared to publicly state what you think. >> You've been right more than you've been wrong. You put out amazing explanatory
[18:21] rap videos. Not not rapping, but explaining the hip-hop and rap world via a business lens. Um, and then you also uh obviously manage money as well, right? and you're actually investing in these things. You're not just, you know, creating content or something like that. What's your day like on a on a daily basis, you know, like what what do you do in kind of the average day of Eric Jackson? >> Uh, I usually do my like daily videos uh like first thing. So, if I'm up at like 5 or something, if I haven't done it the night before, I'm trying to like, okay,
[18:52] what the heck am I going to talk about today? My best ideas for the videos. They It's kind of evolved over time. uh you know I have my son Julian here in the front row in the blue shirt who was uh he's uh 17. He was the one who came up with the idea when I was doing the open door campaign about like standing in front of Drake's house and because basically he was like dad you know most people don't watch CNBC or Fox Business or Bloomberg. Uh, so how are you going to reach those people and try to keep, you know, tell them how great Open Door is? And um, you know, so I I did that
[19:23] and he was the one who said, you know, you should do it every day until like Drake does, you know, buys a share or something. Um, >> did he did he listen right away or did he fight you? He fought you. >> He listened right away. Oh, that's interesting. >> He was my cameraman for the first few days because it was in the middle of summer. So, um, >> social media manager, I hear I used to hear him say that sometimes. >> But then, you know, it got it got kind of boring. So, you know, I got to do something more to keep people's interest and stuff. Uh, and then it sort of evolved and and you know, Drake came out with a new album earlier this summer.
[19:53] So, I thought, well, maybe I should like start talking about, you know, I'm I can't be Joe Budden sort of giving my critiques on the eloquence of the rhymes. So, maybe I could talk more about the business of of hip-hop and and some of these questions like, is Drake going to resign with Universal Music? And it kind of took on a life of its own. And there's been this whole like community of followers now that I have on social media that don't follow stocks, but they're primarily interested in hip-hop, but now because they hear me sometimes talk about stocks and markets, they're they're like, "Hey, you know, I
[20:24] want to, you know, invest in the stock market. I want to, you know, you know, raise my family up." And so it it kind of like worlds collide and like all the rising dynasty ideas that we talked about last year of like you know where retail shareholders were you're going to try to spend some time doing research uh and getting behind a few stocks like an open door carvana that could really make a big difference in their lives like that that's kind of like a universal thing. So, you know, I try to put an interesting video out uh like right in the morning. Um and then immediately
[20:54] kind of jump, you know, jump out of that, get into the markets, what's going on, what's happening with the 10-year today, you know, what's uh how how can I use AI to kind of better understand exactly what's going on with the 10-year? Uh and more importantly, like, you know, what is it what does it mean that it's r, you know, gone up so quickly? Is it how's that going to play? How's that going to affect Openor? How's that going to affect HUT and and any other stocks in my portfolio? Try to you know ask those kinds of questions and um you know obviously watch how the
[21:24] market's progressing during the day. Um trying to think of um long form written or you know video pieces I could be doing to kind of better explain what's happening in the markets and stuff like that. So I am kind of like an ADHD guy. So like I I like jumping around and not just like spending like eight hours straight on one problem, but like hopping back and forth and um it's that works for me. [snorts] >> When you think about investing in today's market, it feels like we're going to get 24/7 trading. It feels like
[21:56] we are going to get this like rapid acceleration in how fast stocks, companies, revenue, profits can grow. And then we also have the backdrop of the governments are never going to stop printing money. How do you think about investing or you know constructing a portfolio today? What's in your portfolio you know in terms of are you 100% equities? Do you have other assets? Just kind of talk through you know your approach to that portfolio construction. >> I'm more on the like riskier side of the the spectrum. So I'm more concentrated
[22:27] than you know probably most people would be be comfortable with. I'm more comfortable um you know having a good chunk of that concentrated portfolio in you know more you know smaller names smaller cap growthy names like a like a hut or a uh open door or you know I also like next door uh is is one I like a lot right now there's a company called Dave that does like you know small $200 kind of payday type you know loans uh to people using using a like a plaid
[22:58] integration so I I like those kind of more incon individual names. Um, and uh, but I do love crypto as well. I'm big big on crypto. Spend a lot of time focused on crypto. So, um, for me that's probably 90% of what I play in uh, and think about uh, in terms of my exposure. And I think that, you know, the real the the the biggest mistakes that I've made like in in constructing those kinds of names is just being too early to a
[23:30] story. You could be totally right about a story, but you know, we might be like two years away from it really starting to to play out in in a way that the market's going to notice. And so probably like I spend most of my time saying once I convince myself like, okay, this is an interesting story. differentiated like is it is it right for right now? You know, is it is it about to inflect? Is is there something in in the growth rates of this company that we're going to start stop seeing
[24:00] 10% revenue growth, 10% and suddenly like 30% revenue growth and you know why and all that kind of stuff. So, uh, that's if you know that and you only learn those kinds of questions like just from obviously like stubbing your toe and making mistakes on names. >> So, I know this is a loaded question, but uh, how do you sell? I'm convinced that's way harder than buying. You know, I can pick a lot of names that are going to go up, but sometimes you round trip
[24:31] it, sometimes you sell, sometimes you sell and then it keeps going. You know, I mean, there's all these like variations. So what is your maybe approach to knowing when and how to sell? >> Uh yeah, first of all, you got to know yourself and like so I'm more of the optimist. You know, there are some people in the world that are more the pessimist, right? And so um you know, we can both have our moments to be right, but we're not always right either way. And so uh when you're an optimist, you obviously hang on too long. You believe in the story too much. So in individual
[25:04] equity names it's it's trying to understand like hey did I get it right right or wrong about the quality of the CEO quality of the management um was I early here you know um you know is has something changed materially in this story compared to when I got into it I don't know six months ago eight months ago versus like what just happened in the last quarter was that was that last quarter if they missed was it a blip or you know is it uh the you know the beginning of something like more ominous here in terms of the the business
[25:34] changing. Uh what's been um positive though for for a guy like me who's more optimistic and and helpful in answering that question of when you get out is I've been working spending a lot of time over the last few years on um AI models specifically around Bitcoin. And so, uh, I sold, uh, those those models to a company called SRXH, you know, I don't know, six, I guess last last December, we announced it. [snorts] Uh, and the deal only closed in June. Now, we're
[26:04] starting to put it into place. We made an announcement this week that we're going to turn it into like an ETF, but we've been running the models obviously, you know, in real time. And, uh, it's it's basically a kind of what what kind of Bitcoin market are we in? um model. So, are we in a bull market for Bitcoin? Are we in a mixed choppy market or are we in a bare market and you know it gives you about a 30 days advanced notice when you sort of flip from one of those regimes into the next one about
[26:34] where the price is going to go. Obviously, if you're in a mixed market and you go into a bare market, you can guess that the price of Bitcoin is going to going to go down. And what's what's been so it's it's great that it's been accurate. Um, you know, it it sort of told us like May 26th we were in a mixed market. Bitcoin was like 77K and said, "Oh, get out. We're like we're going we went into stress." And then, you know, 6 weeks later, Bitcoin hit like 58K. And on August 14th, uh, it said, "Oh, we're back into a mixed market all all
[27:04] aboard." when Bitcoin was at 62K, right before like obviously went up to as high as like recently 87K. Just a week ago, uh when Bitcoin was around 84K, it went back into stress and it's still in stress now. So, and you know, you get those signals and you're like, >> I don't want I don't want to hear that. >> Am I am I wrong? Like I last week if you'd asked me just like you know Eric the human you know uh Bitcoin bull you know is is are there warning signs on the horizon for Bitcoin at 84K and I
[27:35] would have said no you know everything it's all good you know like things are things are looking good and and then you know what you know obviously we've had a bad day today. So, um, it's it's I mean it's not always right, but like the you know that's where AI I think is really going to help us become better investors over time is is it it takes it takes time to develop your models, but like when you get one that really works, it helps take the human emotion out of trading and be a little bit more detached. And
[28:05] >> I I don't I don't ever look at the price because you said that. I just looked it's uh 815. That's what the heck is going on there? And your model is uh maybe your modeling is even >> I mean it >> turn it green. >> It it looks like we're we're sort of starting to come back. So I mean if I was here tomorrow I think I might say hey good news. We're you know back into the mix market. [laughter] Get let's all get bowled up and go buy some Bitcoin. So uh >> I think this room is enough. We don't need anymore >> on Bitcoin. [laughter] Um all right. Where can we send people to uh to find you online? Where where's the best place
[28:35] for them to all go check out? >> Uh so EMJ Capital is my hedge fund. You can check that out. There's a website for that. Uh the uh there's obviously like uh if you want to know more about the Bitcoin model, um SRXH is the is the stock, but SRX is the ticker. >> SRXH. >> Yeah, SRXH. But um also check out my new website that I just started this year called event horizon um.com. So it's basically using AI models to outsmart prediction markets. And so we we find
[29:08] where Kelshi and Poly Market are off with their current some of their current predictions. So and again we're not always 100% right but we're looking to tell you where you know more often than not we will be right where maybe they're over over bullish or or kind of uh or over bearish on on different things whether it's on crypto pricing or on politics or Supreme Court decisions and stuff like that. interesting like one last thing I'll say about poly market you know obviously bitcoin had the big jump in August right and I said our
[29:39] model kind of flipped on said you know get bullish on August 14th on August 12th on poly market you uh there was 3% odds on poly market that bitcoin would would end the month of August at 70k 3%. Um obviously like Bitcoin had a had a run and it ended the month at 79K. So the wisdom of crowds is not always correct and AI can I think be a great um supplement to kind of you know spot different opportunities like that in all different kinds of contexts. >> It's different types of intelligence.
[30:09] Yeah. >> Right. Crowd intelligence, superhuman intelligence, Eric Jackson intelligence. [laughter] It's all the same. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks you guys.
[0:31] completely changed I think public markets and most people will point to the open doors the GameStops you know a variety of other companies but I don't think folks realize that a lot of public company CEOs reach out to me they probably reach out to you there's a couple of other folks and they're like I want to engage with the retail investor how do I do that what what and it's my takeaway is just like the retail investor is important now to them what have you seen you've been doing just a while. How has that changed throughout your career? >> Yeah, I definitely think that's the case. I mean, I think we had that
[1:02] conversation before I joined the board of Sylvia um about that and how to engage that important stakeholder group. Uh so there are a lot of companies thinking that way. I think that uh [laughter] >> they got me twice. >> Be careful. These these these bottles are popping. Um, so I think everybody wants to get retail on their side. I don't think there's a cookie cutter way to do that or, you know, established
[1:32] wisdom. But I mean, some pretty basic things are be open, be authentic, be transparent, you know, just just like, you know, it it goes for politicians as much as it does for CEOs of companies. um you want to make people feel you're a human being. So doing things like having video earnings calls as opposed to just hiding behind an audio only earnings call I think is a like an easy layup way to engage with people. Um
[2:04] but um the other I mean there's another point about the rise of retail. I think people assume like oh AI exists now. It's never been easier for retail to kind of rally support. I I don't think uh that's totally true. And what I mean by that is that at the end of the day, for any online campaign, you know, group of of of shareholders to really have a of a a powerful effect on companies, it takes leadership. You know, leadership matters
[2:36] in the military, leadership matters in community organizations, and leadership matters online, too. Just because AI is great doesn't mean that things automatically happen. Like all like I have uh ex you know subscription subscribers right and I once a week I do this like AMA like hey guys you know ask me anything join the spaces you know come up step up to the mic and just ask me a question. And um I'm often surprised that you know people
[3:07] a lot of people prefer to kind of hide you know stand back and ask a text question not not even like just ask a you know just hold the mic and I I think you know so the opportunity for retail to gather it still needs somebody to kind of want to step up on the soap box and say hey let's do this let's do that. It doesn't just like happen amorphously like from the the the mob like getting together. And so I there's never been a
[3:38] better time in human history for retail to have an impact because AI makes it so easy and AI makes getting to know a company and its strengths and weaknesses easier. But at the end of the day like we, you know, individually have to kind of step up and make a difference ourselves and and and lead. >> This room is full of independent investors. there are thousands of them watching online right now. Uh you are probably one of the most uh prolific users of AI in your research and your investment strategy in the identification of opportunities but also
[4:08] the diligence of those opportunities. Can you just walk us through how are you using the technology and maybe how could people in this room use the technology to better enhance their investment approach? >> Well, like I use it a lot. Absolutely. And um you know this is not going to be a surprise probably to most people in this room but obviously like you can waste a lot of money on tokens and I have um and the simplistic queries like what's the
[4:38] next open door you know like show me the next open door that I can get behind the next Carvana or something usually doesn't yield much fruit. So, the way that I've used it in my own research is um uh to try to get at the more complicated questions like if you see a space where uh there are a bunch of players going after it and you don't and and you don't really understand like what differentiates one versus the other like trying to uh unpack that and do some use AI to try to say hey company A
[5:10] is doing it this way, company B is doing it that way. um why why are they doing it going at it differently? What what advantage does the second company have over the first? I find like there's like much more like unlocks for me in uh asking those kinds of questions. And the other thing I'd say is, you know, people again probably have have realized this, but there's a big difference between the different um LLMs out there, right? So, you know, I personally find chat GPT is the most like artistic uh of them. Like
[5:41] so if I'm want to write a tweet or hey I want to do a put a PowerPoint together like I usually find I get the best results from that you know cloud is good and it's kind of like a good workhorse and I use it a lot but I don't find that same pizzazz with it. But uh if I'm if I'm thinking about programming and actually coding or redesigning like a website that I'm working on or something like that surprisingly I find Kimmy to be the best. um you know it's the most thorough the most uh kind of detail
[6:12] oriented and um so you know what tools to leverage you know to get what kind of outcome is you know what I'd say >> one of the companies you've been involved in is uh HUD 8 and uh they seem to be uh doing very well um they obviously [clears throat] have seen significant move in their stock price but you recently went down and saw one of the data center campuses that they're building uh and we were just talking about how inspirational maybe how incredible it is to actually like see it. Can you describe to people like what's happening when you go and you
[6:43] visit one of these sites and you know we talk about using AI but like there is hardware and construction and power and land and all this stuff that is really being built to empower us to use it. >> Yeah, for sure. It was like I mean it's a good example of how you could sit be behind a screen all day and you could think that you know oh I know iron cipher hut 8 you know what what differentiates nebius cororeweave um and I've been investing in you know in those names for you know probably the last year and a half um and I I think I I
[7:15] thought I knew them but this was the first time that I actually went down physically and toured uh you know a you know a campus that was being developed. It's 649 acres. It's called Riverbend. It's about a half an hour north of Baton Rouge in Louisiana. And uh I was saying to Anthony before this, you know, you you get in Baton Rouge, pretty small airport, like you know, pretty small town, even though they've got LSU there and everything, but when you drive out 30 minutes outside, like you see the the
[7:45] the old world and the new world, right? You know, you see like a suburban town and then you all of a sudden you see these like oil refineries from Shell or Exon Mobile or whatever that are big but, you know, rusting, you know, and not not all that new. Obviously, the old ways that a lot of people in that in those communities uh made made money. And then you keep going and going and you're basically in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden 649 acres opens up, you know, just in the middle
[8:16] of a forest that they are with. You've got cats everywhere clearing land, you know, leveling uh hundreds of people teaming, you know, building out this site uh for this campus, a massive site. Uh and uh Jacobs was like the the engineer um contractor of choice there. you see like a whole section devoted to Verdive, the company that does a cooling systems and stuff. Hut's got about 15 people who live physically have been on the site since February. They live in
[8:47] Baton Rouge. They commute every way uh to the campus and they're kind of like the the conductors like they've got to coordinate all these different folks from the workers on uh on on up uh to you know to know how to build it. And until I was there, I a I'd never seen transformers that big or substations that big. Like the power that these kinds of sites need is truly phenomenal. And just how massive this was. And this
[9:17] was just phase one of the first campus. And uh there were a ton of politicians there. Like I drove up in my rental car. There was like some big tent that United Rentals is making bank, you know, off of these things. Like United Rentals and CAT. Now I understand why their stocks are way up in the last 5 years building out these data centers. Um, but I go into this 110. I I thought I was going in the right entrance. It turns out I was going in the back entrance. All of a sudden like Don Jr. comes out with like about eight secret service arounding him all kind of looking me up and down like I'm going to jump him or something. Uh
[9:47] the the governor of Louisiana was there. Uh and it was a total love fest like you know the the community was happy that all these people were there building out this campus. um the CEO Asher Gnut who's 32. He's like a super smart guy. He's not that well known. So I think Hut ends up being kind of a misunderstood company but and he spoke like a total politician. He was talking he wasn't talking about engineering. He wasn't talking about AI at all. He spent his whole speech uh talking about people
[10:17] people in the community and so forth and you know how this thing was just one of like 10 sites that they looked forward to developing in Louisiana. So, if you were dropped in from a from a spaceship, you would have and and and then uh you attended this event and then later on that day somebody come up to you and said, "Hey, did you know that everybody hates AI data centers, you know, and they're banning them, you know, and and they think they're evil and they're, you know, you know, you just wouldn't you wouldn't have believed it had you been down there in Louisiana because like these politicians, you know, they
[10:47] couldn't couldn't get enough of this." So um but I I I sort of unders better understood that you know for all these companies Navas or whatever I mean we all hear these these news releases that they're getting these like $20 billion 5year contracts and so forth from Microsoft or whoever but there's a real coordination challenge like and it's not uh just cookie cutter again and so I think the opportunity exists for companies like a hut and I think they do it better than
[11:18] most to show to the world cuz it's sort of like unproven right now. This is like the first of like a big campus that are developing that they can they they're they could be the best at this coordination game because the coordination game is how you you light up megawws and then you know gigawatts of power and and how you do it economically. That's the other thing is that they had raised for this one riverband site they raised $ three and a half billion in non-reourse debt instead
[11:48] of diluting their shareholders. Now there have been other players I won't mention them that big you know $6 billion like equity offerings and stuff like that diluting to and and and justified it saying like hey you know this is going to be you know bet all we'll all be better off in the long run but they's taking a risk and but they're and and it's a race to like how quickly can you get this this campus built how quickly can you coordinate all these different you know people together to get get this thing
[12:18] lit up and then once you do you derisk the whole project. So for them they'll probably have to borrow something like $10 billion you know from the beginning to to line up you know and they've got Google backstopping them financially they got fluid stack they got the they landed their anchor tenant in anthropic for this place but and once all those pieces are in place and the thing's lit my calculations are they probably have created like a $15 billion of e extra value that didn't exist before. So on
[12:50] top of the 10 billion that you know that paying that back. So their plan is okay now we create an extra 15 billion okay we're going to put in the next project. So they got something Beacon Point in Texas East Texas I think it is and then it'll once they get the 15 billion or 20 billion from that project in into the next one and all the while not diluting the shareholders with these these like equity offerings. So um I came away thinking like hey this is one of the most misunderstood stocks out there. Usually that's a good sign cuz that's that's what Carvana had in common.
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[15:50] simplemining.io/p. That's simplemining.io/p. Go check it out today. I like that you describe it this way because I think um in a weird way the retail investors have been right way more than they've been wrong. And now I think Wall Street is waking up to the fact that they have to follow or pay attention to the retail investor which is the opposite of the narrative. When you find these things that are misunderstood, how do you build the conviction to know that you're right and
[16:20] not just like it's not that I'm different and right, I'm just different and dumb essentially, right? Cuz the market is pricing something else and and I mis uh analyze this. >> I mean, I think it's just trial and error. I mean, you got and you got to accept the fact that you're going to be wrong, you know, some some sometimes uh or uh too early. You know, I've, you know, Open Door worked great. You know, LA, you know, last year, uh, stock went on a, you know, killer like two year two month run from like 50, you know, well,
[16:50] I got in like in the 70 cent range to like 11 bucks almost in, uh, uh, September when we were, you know, here last year, I think, pretty it was pretty close to the top. And then obviously the stock struggled since then. Um, nothing's wrong with the stock. Nothing's wrong with Cass as you guys probably know from uh I don't think there's anybody that could be doing a better job but there are these times where uh the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater in the sector like we saw you know earlier this year like um you know all SAS stocks were going to be
[17:21] should have been dead by now according to the the conventional wisdom and uh yet you know last I looked Crowd Strike's up 125% on the year you know Twilio's up 100% on the year but there are some stocks in that space like Zoom the the Zoom info is down a ton. So, I mean, there was there was a kernel of truth in the conventional wisdom, but then there was the opportunity to kind of like, you know, sort through and find the real winners and take advantage of that, you know, moment in time where like everybody got to one side of the
[17:51] boat. So, I think um you know, Open Door is going to be proven to be uh one of those cases of that when we look back in a year or two or three that you know, yeah, it was unfairly punished during this. I guess it made sense because the tenure was really ripping and all that kind of stuff. But, uh, they were doing all the right things and, you know, for the patient ones, I think they'll be paid off. >> I think a lot of people are fascinated by you in that, uh, you're not scared to publicly state what you think. >> You've been right more than you've been wrong. You put out amazing explanatory
[18:21] rap videos. Not not rapping, but explaining the hip-hop and rap world via a business lens. Um, and then you also uh obviously manage money as well, right? and you're actually investing in these things. You're not just, you know, creating content or something like that. What's your day like on a on a daily basis, you know, like what what do you do in kind of the average day of Eric Jackson? >> Uh, I usually do my like daily videos uh like first thing. So, if I'm up at like 5 or something, if I haven't done it the night before, I'm trying to like, okay,
[18:52] what the heck am I going to talk about today? My best ideas for the videos. They It's kind of evolved over time. uh you know I have my son Julian here in the front row in the blue shirt who was uh he's uh 17. He was the one who came up with the idea when I was doing the open door campaign about like standing in front of Drake's house and because basically he was like dad you know most people don't watch CNBC or Fox Business or Bloomberg. Uh, so how are you going to reach those people and try to keep, you know, tell them how great Open Door is? And um, you know, so I I did that
[19:23] and he was the one who said, you know, you should do it every day until like Drake does, you know, buys a share or something. Um, >> did he did he listen right away or did he fight you? He fought you. >> He listened right away. Oh, that's interesting. >> He was my cameraman for the first few days because it was in the middle of summer. So, um, >> social media manager, I hear I used to hear him say that sometimes. >> But then, you know, it got it got kind of boring. So, you know, I got to do something more to keep people's interest and stuff. Uh, and then it sort of evolved and and you know, Drake came out with a new album earlier this summer.
[19:53] So, I thought, well, maybe I should like start talking about, you know, I'm I can't be Joe Budden sort of giving my critiques on the eloquence of the rhymes. So, maybe I could talk more about the business of of hip-hop and and some of these questions like, is Drake going to resign with Universal Music? And it kind of took on a life of its own. And there's been this whole like community of followers now that I have on social media that don't follow stocks, but they're primarily interested in hip-hop, but now because they hear me sometimes talk about stocks and markets, they're they're like, "Hey, you know, I
[20:24] want to, you know, invest in the stock market. I want to, you know, you know, raise my family up." And so it it kind of like worlds collide and like all the rising dynasty ideas that we talked about last year of like you know where retail shareholders were you're going to try to spend some time doing research uh and getting behind a few stocks like an open door carvana that could really make a big difference in their lives like that that's kind of like a universal thing. So, you know, I try to put an interesting video out uh like right in the morning. Um and then immediately
[20:54] kind of jump, you know, jump out of that, get into the markets, what's going on, what's happening with the 10-year today, you know, what's uh how how can I use AI to kind of better understand exactly what's going on with the 10-year? Uh and more importantly, like, you know, what is it what does it mean that it's r, you know, gone up so quickly? Is it how's that going to play? How's that going to affect Openor? How's that going to affect HUT and and any other stocks in my portfolio? Try to you know ask those kinds of questions and um you know obviously watch how the
[21:24] market's progressing during the day. Um trying to think of um long form written or you know video pieces I could be doing to kind of better explain what's happening in the markets and stuff like that. So I am kind of like an ADHD guy. So like I I like jumping around and not just like spending like eight hours straight on one problem, but like hopping back and forth and um it's that works for me. [snorts] >> When you think about investing in today's market, it feels like we're going to get 24/7 trading. It feels like
[21:56] we are going to get this like rapid acceleration in how fast stocks, companies, revenue, profits can grow. And then we also have the backdrop of the governments are never going to stop printing money. How do you think about investing or you know constructing a portfolio today? What's in your portfolio you know in terms of are you 100% equities? Do you have other assets? Just kind of talk through you know your approach to that portfolio construction. >> I'm more on the like riskier side of the the spectrum. So I'm more concentrated
[22:27] than you know probably most people would be be comfortable with. I'm more comfortable um you know having a good chunk of that concentrated portfolio in you know more you know smaller names smaller cap growthy names like a like a hut or a uh open door or you know I also like next door uh is is one I like a lot right now there's a company called Dave that does like you know small $200 kind of payday type you know loans uh to people using using a like a plaid
[22:58] integration so I I like those kind of more incon individual names. Um, and uh, but I do love crypto as well. I'm big big on crypto. Spend a lot of time focused on crypto. So, um, for me that's probably 90% of what I play in uh, and think about uh, in terms of my exposure. And I think that, you know, the real the the the biggest mistakes that I've made like in in constructing those kinds of names is just being too early to a
[23:30] story. You could be totally right about a story, but you know, we might be like two years away from it really starting to to play out in in a way that the market's going to notice. And so probably like I spend most of my time saying once I convince myself like, okay, this is an interesting story. differentiated like is it is it right for right now? You know, is it is it about to inflect? Is is there something in in the growth rates of this company that we're going to start stop seeing
[24:00] 10% revenue growth, 10% and suddenly like 30% revenue growth and you know why and all that kind of stuff. So, uh, that's if you know that and you only learn those kinds of questions like just from obviously like stubbing your toe and making mistakes on names. >> So, I know this is a loaded question, but uh, how do you sell? I'm convinced that's way harder than buying. You know, I can pick a lot of names that are going to go up, but sometimes you round trip
[24:31] it, sometimes you sell, sometimes you sell and then it keeps going. You know, I mean, there's all these like variations. So what is your maybe approach to knowing when and how to sell? >> Uh yeah, first of all, you got to know yourself and like so I'm more of the optimist. You know, there are some people in the world that are more the pessimist, right? And so um you know, we can both have our moments to be right, but we're not always right either way. And so uh when you're an optimist, you obviously hang on too long. You believe in the story too much. So in individual
[25:04] equity names it's it's trying to understand like hey did I get it right right or wrong about the quality of the CEO quality of the management um was I early here you know um you know is has something changed materially in this story compared to when I got into it I don't know six months ago eight months ago versus like what just happened in the last quarter was that was that last quarter if they missed was it a blip or you know is it uh the you know the beginning of something like more ominous here in terms of the the business
[25:34] changing. Uh what's been um positive though for for a guy like me who's more optimistic and and helpful in answering that question of when you get out is I've been working spending a lot of time over the last few years on um AI models specifically around Bitcoin. And so, uh, I sold, uh, those those models to a company called SRXH, you know, I don't know, six, I guess last last December, we announced it. [snorts] Uh, and the deal only closed in June. Now, we're
[26:04] starting to put it into place. We made an announcement this week that we're going to turn it into like an ETF, but we've been running the models obviously, you know, in real time. And, uh, it's it's basically a kind of what what kind of Bitcoin market are we in? um model. So, are we in a bull market for Bitcoin? Are we in a mixed choppy market or are we in a bare market and you know it gives you about a 30 days advanced notice when you sort of flip from one of those regimes into the next one about
[26:34] where the price is going to go. Obviously, if you're in a mixed market and you go into a bare market, you can guess that the price of Bitcoin is going to going to go down. And what's what's been so it's it's great that it's been accurate. Um, you know, it it sort of told us like May 26th we were in a mixed market. Bitcoin was like 77K and said, "Oh, get out. We're like we're going we went into stress." And then, you know, 6 weeks later, Bitcoin hit like 58K. And on August 14th, uh, it said, "Oh, we're back into a mixed market all all
[27:04] aboard." when Bitcoin was at 62K, right before like obviously went up to as high as like recently 87K. Just a week ago, uh when Bitcoin was around 84K, it went back into stress and it's still in stress now. So, and you know, you get those signals and you're like, >> I don't want I don't want to hear that. >> Am I am I wrong? Like I last week if you'd asked me just like you know Eric the human you know uh Bitcoin bull you know is is are there warning signs on the horizon for Bitcoin at 84K and I
[27:35] would have said no you know everything it's all good you know like things are things are looking good and and then you know what you know obviously we've had a bad day today. So, um, it's it's I mean it's not always right, but like the you know that's where AI I think is really going to help us become better investors over time is is it it takes it takes time to develop your models, but like when you get one that really works, it helps take the human emotion out of trading and be a little bit more detached. And
[28:05] >> I I don't I don't ever look at the price because you said that. I just looked it's uh 815. That's what the heck is going on there? And your model is uh maybe your modeling is even >> I mean it >> turn it green. >> It it looks like we're we're sort of starting to come back. So I mean if I was here tomorrow I think I might say hey good news. We're you know back into the mix market. [laughter] Get let's all get bowled up and go buy some Bitcoin. So uh >> I think this room is enough. We don't need anymore >> on Bitcoin. [laughter] Um all right. Where can we send people to uh to find you online? Where where's the best place
[28:35] for them to all go check out? >> Uh so EMJ Capital is my hedge fund. You can check that out. There's a website for that. Uh the uh there's obviously like uh if you want to know more about the Bitcoin model, um SRXH is the is the stock, but SRX is the ticker. >> SRXH. >> Yeah, SRXH. But um also check out my new website that I just started this year called event horizon um.com. So it's basically using AI models to outsmart prediction markets. And so we we find
[29:08] where Kelshi and Poly Market are off with their current some of their current predictions. So and again we're not always 100% right but we're looking to tell you where you know more often than not we will be right where maybe they're over over bullish or or kind of uh or over bearish on on different things whether it's on crypto pricing or on politics or Supreme Court decisions and stuff like that. interesting like one last thing I'll say about poly market you know obviously bitcoin had the big jump in August right and I said our
[29:39] model kind of flipped on said you know get bullish on August 14th on August 12th on poly market you uh there was 3% odds on poly market that bitcoin would would end the month of August at 70k 3%. Um obviously like Bitcoin had a had a run and it ended the month at 79K. So the wisdom of crowds is not always correct and AI can I think be a great um supplement to kind of you know spot different opportunities like that in all different kinds of contexts. >> It's different types of intelligence.
[30:09] Yeah. >> Right. Crowd intelligence, superhuman intelligence, Eric Jackson intelligence. [laughter] It's all the same. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks you guys.