Bitcoin’s iPhone Moment Will Trigger Wall Street FOMO

[0:00] We are at the same point as when the iPhone came out for crypto. The change was that the iPhone came out to allow Uber. For crypto, it's obvious. It's the agents. It's plain and simple, the agents. So, the fact that to me, the ghost city analogy for Ghost Rails is about you build all this infrastructure, you build Ethereum, you build Bitcoin, you develop this whole thing, people know where it is. It needs time to survive the test of [music] time. It needs people looking at it and then it can take off. What's going on guys?
[0:30] Today we got a great conversation with Jordi Visser. In this conversation, we talk about what's going on with consumer AI agents. How is it affecting financial markets? Why are there certain stocks that everyone's excited about? But Jord's got some data that says that they're actually under a lot of pressure. Bitcoin broke out consolidating. Is it going to go up? Is it going to go down? Are we in a Bitcoin bull market? And where else is value going to acrew in your portfolio? What are the assets you don't own that Jordy thinks you should? All that much more in this conversation with Jordy Visser. All right, Jordy. Uh, crypto has done a very good job of hanging in there all week
[1:00] long, even though a number of other things have come under pressure. Why do you think crypto is trading so well? >> When did we last see each other? >> Couple days ago, a Tuesday. We We did a drive by high five. >> I walk into an event not [clears throat] knowing you're there. I thought we were friends. We do this. [laughter] >> We walk through a turn style the other way. See you. Oh, see you. How you >> The difference between you and I is you went for multiple days. See? Uh, [laughter] young Paraguan. Listen, I'm a expert at this. I took my train down to DC, did my 15-minute talk and got right back on the train and came back. You
[1:30] stayed. >> I stayed and had the best time. And for the people who know that I had a great time, you know who you are. I had a great time. Um, okay. So, whenever you The great thing about technical analysis, we talked a lot about the importance of the original break uh in Bitcoin from the low60s up. But what was important was the negative news that was happening in the time before. Mhm. >> Clarity goes down to close to 0%. Uh Fed rate hikes are going through the roof in
[2:01] terms of expectations and at the same time you have the cold wallet incident and yet Bitcoin stayed at like 60 to 65. And so the second that anything good happens. Oh, Bessant intervenes in the yen and then we get all this debasement stuff and it breaks out but it stays under the important levels of kind of the highs from the prior 6 months which were right around 82. So now we gap up again. So the question is when you're doing these in technical analysis where first you handle bad news. You go up
[2:31] what happened when we broke out last week? The Fed raised rates 10ear rates are going higher. Equities are you know breath is breaking down in the market and yet we still found a way to go higher again. So I believe based on the inbound traffic I'm getting from everybody. everyone but people that manage trillions of dollars. So not the analysts who work for him, the people who manage trillions of dollars asking me to talk about the paper I
[3:02] wrote two months ago to explain why the paper I wrote on tokenization will change the world, what that means. So I think we've entered a point where you have to realize that people are starting to ask questions about it. Part of this is because of the events that have occurred with consumer agents and things where I've connected the dots, but part of this is also what happened last year. And I think there's PTSD. People missed Micron. They missed the semiconductor trade. And so I think what's starting to happen here is they
[3:34] know crypto is not dead, meaning they kind of waved it off. So people that manage lots of money that need to produce alpha, this is not a greed thing. I think there's FOMO starting to set in. You think that there's FOMO coming from Wall Street on the crypto trade? >> There's no doubt in my mind. Now, I said on this show that I believe that 2027 would be the important year. And the reason is this. You need to have FOMO first because we're nearing the end of the calendar year. And I'm spending a lot of time like I did in DC about machine time versus human time. Human
[4:05] time moves really slow. Crypto doesn't move slow. It moves very fast. AI doesn't move slow. It moves very fast. Oh, rates are going higher. or this is going to hurt the housing market. This is going to hurt small caps. I posted something on X today. So, let me get this straight. The Mag 7 are near all-time high and the Russell 2000 is breaking down, which means breath is breaking down. And if you do a chart for all of you breath fearmongers now of the market, you'll realize that, oh, QQQ over
[4:35] IWM has been a trade since the iPhone came into existence. If you're not part of the digital economy, you're suffering. So I think there's an element that crypto now has a fundamental use. It has public companies which means they can do a little bit of investing. They're not going into the tokens but they are looking. But I think the fact that you and I talk about all the time and we have a lot of different listeners. I write about the relationship. I set up a business based on the importance of AI to crypto disrupting macro. I think FOMO is
[5:05] kicking in because they're trying to figure out ways to make money because it's been kind of a frustrating year for Alpha. And I'm just going to give you one example because I can tell by people reaching out on on me on things like Visa and Mastercard. So Visa and Mastercard are your classic examples of things that oh crypto is not going to disrupt them. And I'm just like of course it will. Like I don't even know how you could argue they're going to benefit maybe initially but not in 5 years. >> Why? We're entering a deflationary period
[5:36] that people just do not understand. Deflation, not inflation. Deflation. You and I agree on that. The deflationary pressures that come from AI are intense. It's just a matter of how long it takes for it to filter through. But where it's really going to filter through is when people are having agents, an agent's job is to find their airline ticket for the cheapest price that satisfies to book a travel thing where they're stripping out the middlemen as much as possible. Visa and Mastercard by definition are middlemen.
[6:06] So when people argue with me on this, they go, "Well, no, no, they you need this for this. They're going to benefit." Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, "Yeah, just like Salesforce.com, you see Salesforce.com lately, it's up big. It's down 10% this year. S&P's up 12. So it's underperformed by 22%. Semiconductors, my thematic portfolio is up 45%. Salesforce down here. Even the Mag 7, they're up 10%. They've underperformed. I think people are making a mistake on Vis and Mastercard. They're not going out of business. But at some point, you have to recognize that terminal value
[6:37] matters again. And crypto and tokenization are going to change the world because it unleashes a lot of them too because wealth becomes money. I wrote about that this week. It's on Substack. But on the other side, it brings an enormous amount of entrepreneurs that you can invest in because they're going to have tokens. Is it going to be this year? No. But it'll be in five years. So where Visa and Mastercard go, it's not about them going out of business. It's about in five years, will people still be paying a vig? Agents won't. Agents don't pay
[7:07] vigs. Agents figure out how. So people tell me consumer behavior, they know consumer behavior. I'm sorry, but you don't know agent behavior. Agent behavior is all about the goals. And the goals are find things fast and cheap. >> In the last bull market, there was a lot of institutions that they started to dip their toes. and dipping toes because they're so big felt really big to the crypto industry. So if you have, you know, hundred billion dollars of assets and you take 1%, it's a billion dollars.
[7:37] In the crypto world, there was almost no funds that had a billion dollars. And so [clears throat] all of a sudden quotequote smart money or the big guys show up and they're wow, they put a billion dollars. >> To them, it was like uh let's see what happens here. You know, it's a 1% allocation. I do feel like Wall Street, they're ready for the fat pitch now. They last cycle dipped their toe. They know what this thing can do when it's going in the right direction. They understand it's super volatile. They're glad they just dipped their toes and they didn't go all in cuz they saw the volatility. But your
[8:09] point about FOMO, it's like uh three balls, two strikes, bottom of the ninth, and you know the pitcher's going to throw a fast ball and they're just waiting. And I don't know when you probably understand better than me like what are the trigger that's going to let them you know just swing but this time it's not you know a billion it's 10 20 30 billion [clears throat] per firm it's bitcoin other cryptos tokenization like now they are ready to play this whole thing and some of it is they have more options now they couldn't just go buy
[8:40] you know bitcoin before so they had to wait for the ETFs y >> but also how many public companies are there now that give them some degree of exposure to individual cryptos or tokenization or even you know crypto being used or blockchains being used in certain verticals like the addressable you know uh market of what they can invest in has grown so much as well that they actually can put more money to work at the same time. So, let's talk about um what you just said and and let's go a fat pitch. Let's go back to 2122 when they they stubbed
[9:10] their toe, okay? >> They bought at the highs, they jumped into NFTts, they jumped into FTX, they jumped into a whole bunch of things and it seemed like an obvious situation. Now, the reality is behind closed doors, the VC world was pumping an enormous amount of money into SAS businesses and into crypto. Co is just over. We're in a raging bull market. I've said this before, I'll say it again. For crypto, that was the.com bubble. Like, everyone's looking for the.com bubble in AI. That was the dot bubble for crypto.
[9:41] It wasn't debt, [snorts] but it was VC money that came in. Well, a lot of these rails, they don't need VC money now. So, with AI, the whole world is changing. And this is part of my thing. You don't need to hire people and you get to use digital agents and go through it. The thing that saved.com bubble companies is in 2007 there was a change that was able to use those rails. And I keep saying this over and over again. We were at the same point as when the iPhone came out for crypto. The
[10:11] change was that the iPhone came out to allow Uber. I'll joke about this all the time, but you can't take a laptop up and be ordering a car outside. You need Wi-Fi, cellular. You needed a smartphone to be able to have Uber work. >> Well, GPS in the phone was probably the most important part. Yeah. >> Yeah. You you you couldn't do it. So, we needed an app store. For crypto, it's obvious. It's the agents. It's plain and simple, the agents. So the fact that to me I've been
[10:42] talking about this for a while that the ghost city analogy for ghost rails is about you build all this infrastructure, you build Ethereum, you build Bitcoin, you develop this whole thing. People know where it is. It needs time to survive the test of time. It needs people looking at it and then it can take off. Peter Lynch wrote a book that he's still famous for which is all about oneupping Wall Street. The beauty of this is Wall Street doesn't cover tokens and
[11:12] crypto. They're starting to get involved in the rails, but they don't cover individual tokens. So, if you're at a big mutual fund or a big pension fund, you're like, you know what I'd really like to see? Hey, can you get me the Morgan Stanley research on on crypto tokens? Doesn't exist. So, before when you're in >> TV research exists, >> yes. Yes. I I And again, >> Mr. Research exists. >> It's live now. It's live. It went out this week. And now every week I'll be going through the vertical. So yes, that was what I planned. My business was about the fact that Peter Lynch's
[11:42] philosophy was the best way to make money is to be early on something, but the only way to be early on something is to know that the money is not invested in the thing that you're early on and Wall Street doesn't cover it. That was his whole theory that was one uping Wall Street. Well, that's where I believe we are in crypto. So for all the people have committed their time where they understand every token that I put in my 46th name index, they already know what they are. you have a huge advantage and the money is enormous on the other side because the beauty of the crypto guardrails are the valuation is still $4
[12:13] trillion compared to 900 trillion of asset and all of those assets are going to be tokenized and be on chain. Is it going to happen tomorrow? No. But you don't invest in things based on today. You based on their growth. If you come up with a great idea like Starbucks and you have one store, you know how they start to really get excited when you go to two stores, three stores, four stores. It's about growth at a very low level. Everyone that screwed up the token trade. I wrote a paper on inference. We talked about Micron almost all of last year. The smartest people missed it. And they
[12:44] missed it because they didn't understand compute. This trade is still the same. You want to be long compute speed. You want to be long crypto speed. You want to be short everything that has friction. My presentation in DC was about being long speed, short friction. I was saying it to politicians. Ultimate friction. Why are senior people leaving Google? Why hasn't Google been able to do what Anthropic and OpenAI did? Why aren't people asking that question that the best AI models are not at companies
[13:14] worth with the biggest balance sheets? Anthropic went from 3 billion in revenues to where it is today. Let's say 80. In the same amount of time, as I said on stage, the Clarity Act went from an idea to rejection. In the same amount of time that Anthropic went up, you want to be short friction. You want to be long speed. And we're at that point now where that is starting to play out. And I think crypto guardrails and the whole crypto system, you're going to have a lot of people knocking on your doors and this is going to be money that's coming in. The problem is they don't have access to it because these funds can't
[13:44] invest in these tokens at this point. That'll all change over time, but what they can invest in is Ethereum and Bitcoin and then all of the stocks that are there. I think you're going to see an evolution that's going to change next year. >> Today's episode is brought to you by Arch Public. Arch public has just expanded its agentic trading platform beyond crypto. So pay attention. This is a big one. Now they are automating strategies across stocks, commodities, and ETFs. And I think that this is going to be huge. You can now automatically take profits when one market hits new
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[14:44] works across every major asset class. [music] There's no more emotional trading, no more missing tax opportunities, just smarter, hands-free execution of your preferred strategies. Go to archpub.com right now. Connect with their team. Set up a time. Bring your accountant if you'd like. Then you can learn what automated trading can do for you. archpub.com. This whole idea of uh the AI agents, the uh ability to use this technology, how it goes faster, etc. I think a lot of folks have focused on the intelligence for raffle reasons is, you know, is it a
[15:14] 130, 140, 150 IQ? How do I get as much of that as possible by going long compute? Uh the more people that use the intelligence, obviously, the more productive they should become. All that kind of stuff. But one aspect I don't hear a lot of people talk about which I catch myself now I try to be very conscious of my consumer behaviors its memory is better than me now and I find myself telling various agents remind me tomorrow to do something at this time put this in your memory and
[15:45] don't forget it make sure that whenever you do this task you always remember to do xyz and it hit me if this thing is smarter than us and it has better memory than us. What can it not do? like you are going to just turn over all of this stuff to it and everyone wants to talk about intelligence but the memory component when you start talking about finance start talking about financial data that feels like a huge piece of this is whenever you talk to someone smart in finance what do they know they
[16:15] know history they could tell you different cycles they could tell you different you know a catalyst they could tell you things that triggered sell-offs all of the stuff and you're like wow this person's really smart they understand all this they are no match for the memory of a financial agent So th [clears throat] this is where we start going from the reality of the importance of enterprise agents and what we just went through the last year to consumer agents. So let's separate memory into two [clears throat] components. I ask chat GPT uh about how to fix something in my
[16:47] house. I ask it about some random thing that happens. Those are things I don't care about a memory of. And that's pretty much what you dominate a chatbot with with Muse and for you Instinct. I use it for everything memory wise. So like if I'm on a trip now, I can just take a photo, upload it into Muse. Don't have to say anything. I just have to go back at some point and go, "Hey, just take everything that I did on that trip, all the receipts, and put it into a uh into something for my company, for my
[17:19] accountant." It's there. It has the memory of everything. Hey, I booked a trip to so- and so. Can you send me the details of my trip to LA? And I just did this with it this morning. It sends me everything that I booked during the time, the meetings I have, where I'm staying, the whole thing. It asks me if it wants me to put it any place. The me the personal memory, the Jarvis, you know, from Iron Man, it exists now. And so those memories are really important, but those only come with a consumer agent where you're actually giving them access to everything. So, I don't I just
[17:51] don't think people have until they use a consumer agent, they don't realize what just happened. Now, to get back to your IQ point last week, [snorts] I talked about the point in situational awareness on page 71 where it goes parabolic. So when you watch your children grow up, like your kids are young, >> their IQ is not real high at this point in terms of >> I know [laughter] >> my my son still is got a hard time sometimes slowing himself down. So he
[18:21] just runs into the wall as the stopping point. >> And you told me he would try to be Superman. Like literally tried to be see if see if he was Superman. Okay. >> Oh, he Yeah. >> Yeah. And it didn't work. Okay. >> A nice scar on his face for a while. [laughter] >> So here here's the thing. At some point the intelligence gets to the point where the kids are really smart and they're smarter than you, but it takes >> where we're starting from. There's there's only [laughter] up to >> but no matter what it's it's a progression and it keeps going with the AI models reaching the point so much has happened in the last 3 months, two and a
[18:52] half months. And I'm going to say two and a half and I'm going to uh preview something that I'm going to do in my video this weekend. I [snorts] think what doesn't get talked about enough with Muse Meadow was left for dead in June and on July 2nd it he had a town hall meeting or there was a report of a town hall meeting. Do you remember this? >> Yeah. >> And and he said the progress on what we found out later it said AI and like all the media but it was really their internal work on agents was not going at
[19:23] the pace they expected. >> How do you go from that point to Muse in two months? >> You want me to tell you how? I'll give you tell me how and then I'll tell you the facts. >> I heard that uh he moved his desk over to the Meta AI team and he sat there and I've seen him do it before. You know, he just wore rooms, all stuff, whatever. >> How do you, if you're on that team, not figure it out when the big boss says, "Hey, this is important." >> It was from applying pressure. Okay. Yeah. What do you think?
[19:53] >> Well, I'm going to show exactly what happened. Now, when I say exactly, I just want to make sure people know if you haven't done this before. Ask your LLM to say, "Hey, I want to figure out how we could go from this point to this point, and I want you to go through every public announcement by any employee that worked in that group there, whether it's a in Reddit, wherever it is." And then it puts together a timeline of the changes. A week after that news story came out,
[20:25] there was a breakthrough. So the reason this is important is whatever caused it, they started releasing new versions of Muse >> consistently just like Anthropic does. Like you could see they were making progress cuz each one they were cuz they were under pressure. This [snorts] is the reason why with this consumer agent point with Instinct and with Meta, you don't think OpenAI is now racing to get their agent out because they don't want to lose the eyeball battle. >> So right now Meta has this advantage,
[20:56] but we're going to start getting consumer consumer agent releases, personal assistance from everyone now. >> And so so what does a user do? Do they adopt all of them? Do they just pick one they like? How do they navigate this uh onslaught of everyone wants them to use their agent? This is where I I'm already locked into Muse. I It's I I my own experience is unlike an LLM, I've always used Chat GPT the most except for one little window when Claude Code went through it, but then I went right back
[21:26] to Chat GPT and I'm still I I like Astra better than than than But then again, we had two new releases this week. Opus 5.5 is just ridiculous. Um, but Muse, it's locked in because it has all my information now and it's doing all this work. It's connected to my emails. It's doing everything I want and I'm getting used to it and it's very hard for me to see that I would change it cuz I haven't run into anything yet where it made a mistake or did something wrong. It's really, really amazing. The reason I bring it up is as you're going through
[21:56] this thing and you're thinking about the importance of agents, you have to get back to the situational awareness thing. We're at a point where so much incredible stuff is happening and the media focuses on oh my god there was a hacking but at the same time we're making advancements with Navier Stokes and then Anthropic comes out with something on crisper. If you go through X, you'll get 50% of biologists and people saying, "This is BS. They're just releasing this for the IPO." And then I'm going, "Well, the
[22:26] only one I care about is the guy who is in Code Breaker, >> who is from MIT, who's one of the two renowned people in Crisper that said, "This is amazing. This is a breakthrough." Like, you're never going to get anything where it's signal. It's always going to be noise. There's always going to be half the population says it's not there. And that's just human beings. But where is no doubt that for the next 12 months, if you want to make money, you're going to have to make it on compute and on the guard rails for
[22:57] these agents because how many deals did Muse do this week with Shopify, Instacart, like it's just growing. PayPal, everything is happening. So, I think this is the critical point where the IQ has reached a level where we're at recursive self-improvement and every month is going to be another month of just advancements. >> What happens when Muse gets blocked by Amazon? which I think just happened and you want to use one. It has all your information, but a very key use case for that agent gets cut off, not because
[23:28] they made a mistake or anything, but because a competitor is trying to introduce that friction, reduce speed. >> Mh. >> Do you then have to go and adopt Amazon's agent? Or do you think it's a world where your Muse agent will then talk to an Amazon agent and that communication would be the same thing as you as a human going to the website, but now they're just going to create their own agent and agent to agent communication. I again I I think the issue is going to come you can't stop this like I I think when um Android came
[23:58] out verse Apple and you're trying to figure out can you use Uber on Android eventually or could I mean I think the friction they'll try to do whatever they can I think Amazon and they're all competing but in the end I don't see how to go will instinct be allowed to use all of them I mean I I I just don't see if Amazon wants to lose business because everyone's on Muse and everyone starts using Shopify or starts using Instacart instead of Amazon, then it'll just drive
[24:29] markets other places. So, it's not that they're going to end these things. I think in the end, uh they've got shareholders and if they take a decision, then it's like, okay, we're going to we're going to enter our own one and because we have the Amazon world, we're going to dominate. And then you've got Apple and Apple's going to have Siri. They're all I mean, this is going to be like a growing uh agentic side. I just don't see how they can block things off because then they're choosing silos and they're limiting the ability of controlling a lot of it and I just don't see how this is going to be anything more than the initial days and
[25:00] how they're dealing with this. I think in the end it's just going to be divvied up. >> It's fascinating to think about Black Rockck. They came out with a paper this week talking about AI and um crypto. Thank you for listening to the podcast the last [laughter] six months. Um I I thought that it was fantastically uh written or very well done. Um >> I would say 90% of it is very similar things that you've been talking about. Uh there is 10 or 15% though in there that I think they kind of have different viewpoints and some of it maybe because they're coming from more of a financial
[25:30] mindset and a traditional finance. Um but what I think people look back on the Bitcoin ETFs, the ETF was important, but the ETF really only happened once Uncle Larry said, "I'm ready to do an ETF." And then somehow it all got approved. >> Black Rockck writing the paper, there's a lot of papers that have been written about Bitcoin or crypto and AI. >> Y, >> but Black Rockck writing it again kind of is like, oh, okay, the adults in the room also agree now. Now it is for real. It feels like a contrarian viewpoint
[26:01] that just literally with the release of one paper goes from contrarian to consensus. Do you agree? >> Um, yeah. I think there was a targeted reason for the release though too based on the fact that in the same week they also put three funds on chain. So >> Oh, they have an agenda. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, an agenda is the right. They have a business and I think they're selling what they're doing and they're ahead of >> the banks. Yeah. >> So, uh they're trying to stay ahead on this just like Amazon's trying to not fall behind to Meta and Open AI. I mean,
[26:33] at the end of the day, the speed of change is going so rapidly and inside these walls, you have a lot to lose. So, on the flip side, when whenever I use Michael Sailor's line of [snorts] you don't find Bitcoin, Bitcoin finds you, which is a reference to the fact that until you actually need Bitcoin, you're not going to care. I think the same thing happens with AI. I think every time something happens in artificial intelligence, there's a fear of the SAS apocalypse in in in your name or whatever. And we see this time and time again where something will fall 30, 40,
[27:03] 50%. A lot of the software names have not come back. And like I said with Salesforce, Salesforce has bounced, but it's still down 10% year-to- date and it's down 15% over the last 5 years. Um, is that good? That's that's not something you want to invest in. Um, and again, Bitcoin is down significantly from the highs. So, you can make the argument if you just pick this cherry pick this this point of time. Um, I I I think this is going to be a disruptionfilled point and I think everyone's trying to get the jump on anyone. BlackRock has a huge advantage
[27:33] as some place that people trust from a asset manager perspective that has already made this big commitment to crypto, but they don't. I mean, Fidelity's there, Franklin Templeton's there. It's not like they're the only ones. Uh I think the entire side is trying to drive the Morgan Stanley's, the Bank Americans, the Goldman Sachs to make sure that they're focused on it and they didn't really get focused on it honestly until what the last year maybe the last it's been this year that they
[28:03] were kind of forced into it. So there is a fear of missing out and that's the other part of the FOMO when you really look and you don't think about the charts or you don't think about anything like what's happened this year in crypto. A lot's gone on. I know people don't like the word crypto. It's amazing to me. I like I like provoking uh anger in people. They were digital assets. I was talking to someone yesterday who you had on who you connected us with who I brought up NFTTS like what's a bad word. Yeah, I get it. What do you want
[28:33] to call it? I was like digital assets. Everything's a digital asset now. It's acceptable. So, I think the whole industry is in a chase mode and I just think Black Rockck has the biggest audience and the easiest time to do this stuff. Today's episode is brought to you by Galaxy 1. A lot of people got their money working for them, but the question now, how hard is it working? Well, the folks over at Galaxy 1, they're taking a very different approach. [music] Everyone earns 3.5% APY using Galaxy 1 Cash. And if you make over $200,000 a year, that means you're probably an accredited investor. And then you can
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[30:36] week we talked a lot about the agents and uh a number of things that now I think are moving rapidly in a matter of weeks from contrarian to consensus. Uh on Monday, Meta gapped up almost 15% or so. Uh I don't know if we get a pat on the back. Maybe we get like a little golf clap, right? Um what is your thought process on like okay, we know the consumer agents are going to become a thing. People are already adopting them. You and I are adopting them. We're using them very aggressively. What does that mean for the companies? Black
[31:06] Rockck's talking about this. Meta's building this. Like, do all of these companies actually see it flow through to performance and ultimately higher stock prices, or is there maybe a period of time where there's tons of adoption, but stock prices don't really reflect that until they can show that they can actually monetize these services? I think the market on Monday uh set a very similar framework to what happened with semiconductors saying oh my god the agent world started today how do we make
[31:36] money off agents I think the disappointment will come and again how you measure the monetary benefits to Meta well now they get the benefit of the doubt because they have this growth engine so if you can find anything positive in there it offsets the debt that they've been taking the fact that the Mag 7 broke to all-time highs on the same day. And last week I did talk about the fact and I did on my my my weekend show that the Mag 7 all benefit from the agentic side in some
[32:07] way. I mean Amazon has Alexa, Apple has Siri, Google has Gemini. Like they're all ways that you're going to benefit on this by having a personal assistant. I mean for Muse, imagine if Google said, "I'm not you can't access my my account." I I it would it would be very very difficult to to go through. Now Muse can absolutely help me with Amazon because they just sign in under my name and go through it. And that's the beauty of like, well, how do you know it's not me? You can't buy things then. Okay, great. But can you do the research and tell me what I should look
[32:37] for and go through it? That is one of the powers of Muse, by the way. people haven't used it. If you're taking a trip and you want to go find restaurants in a city, one of the things I hate the most about the way search works is when you type that in, you get whatever papers and advertisers have been paid to do that. When you use Muse, you you you >> get the answer. >> You get the answer. Um, so I I think the the marketing >> You're saying Muse is a filter? >> Uh, to a to a degree. That's it's it's it's really hurting. I I don't
[33:07] understand still the advertising side. So I don't understand this whole thing of people being excited about ads personally. I just >> ads in inmuse >> like anything regarding ads. When I hear consumer agents I I'm thinking that agents will be making decisions with no preferences. I don't know why people don't understand this. Like human beings McDonald's putting a a photo of a burger. No offense to anyone listening from McDonald's but I don't eat McDonald's. And so when I see a photo I
[33:39] know and they try to make it look good. >> It's best restaurant in America. >> It definitely controls a lot of the food supply in the country. Um >> based what is an AI agent going to make decisions on? They're going to make them based on price, reviews, all of these different things, but it's not going to be based on advertising. So maybe that's not today, but eventually it is. So when I hear people talk about consumer behavior, I think the agent side is still going to be compute. So for everyone who's like worried about semiconductors and stuff, watch this
[34:09] Sunday when I show you where we are. The compute needs just went up exponentially. Remember Meta has built a huge data center in in in Louisiana. Why? They're not selling the compute. Remember that was the story back in June. Also, they didn't sell any. They're not doing what they actually have a need for it. Why do they have a need for it? because of their consumer agents and at some point this week there was a weight list where you couldn't get on just like it was for Instinct. So I think consumer agents is going to lead
[34:39] to enormous amount of compute. I do think there'll be a buzz trade for MAG 7 and things like that. I don't think they're going to outperform the S&P. I think they'll [snorts] outperform small caps as people get panicked because of rates and because of oil. But in the end I do think that you can make money off this. But I think the place where you want to go and what are the agents using? They're using crypto. What do they need? They need compute. Those are the trades. Are you telling me that there's going to be zero ability to create like a cute agent that can flirt with somebody else's agent to get a sale? That's not going to be a thing.
[35:09] >> It's not going to be a thing. >> All right. Well, there's some businesses that going to be in trouble there. Um, when you think through everything that's happening in the product side, one aspect that I think people are starting to almost forget about is there's a huge technical side to this. And Mused, I think the beauty of it is like you have no clue what model they're using. You have no clue how much to compute costs. You don't know a token. The average person's never even heard that term, right? All they know is there's a piece of software that is a product. I tell it
[35:41] to do something, it does it. It's magic. >> On the technical side, uh, recently Doresh sat down with Nome Brown and, uh, it was pretty interesting conversation. What were your main takeaways? Uh I lately my AI listening on podcast has gone down. >> Okay. Interesting. >> And the reason is someone who we both know asked me this yesterday because uh they're at the moonshots uh event and I sat back and I
[36:13] said here's the deal. When things are changing so fast, it's almost useless to listen to what happened in the prior week because the next week there's a whole new thing. So unless it's something that's like earthshattering like Opus 5.5 releasing doesn't change anything. Chat GPT6 and Soul Luna doesn't change anything. >> I literally don't even think most people >> care anymore when these new things unless it is a huge step function change. >> Exactly. the iterative nobody
[36:44] >> it does it it doesn't matter and Astra I said it to people I I'm not going to care anymore this thing is so good that it does everything that I needed to do which wasn't the case before and so the time between them so that's the reason >> one aspect of this I think is very interesting is when we look at uh measurements inside of Sylvia and we're measuring let's say uh accuracy or uh efficacy on certain benchmarks we continue to talk internally without an Let's say that Opus scores 88 and the
[37:17] Sylvia model scores 91 and let's say maybe chat GBT whatever version scores 86. Can a human tell the difference between 86 88 and 91? Probably not. >> Yeah. >> Can a human tell the difference between 40 and 90? Absolutely. >> Yeah. But one of the questions is like what is the the band of the human eye cannot you know identify the difference and I think that what you're talking about in these new model releases
[37:47] they're within the band of to the user it's the same thing. >> Y >> and what you need is you need these breakouts people only care when it is obvious to them. >> So before I I I go through what I am listening to and and why this has changed and the nome brown situation. So, there was one that came out this week, a benchmark that um Astra I think got 100% and and and Fable got 45. >> Oo. This was a driving benchmark. So, it was a driving from what I saw
[38:17] simulation. >> Okay. >> And so, they had to learn >> a fake test for a fake action >> of course. Yeah. and they had to do it and Astra ended up being able to do it on like the second try and I'm not sure that uh Fable finished the course. The reason I bring that up is not to say well this one's better than this. It's to say that we're getting into the point now where humanoids robotics full self-driving become something important. Remember um making snap decisions at a given point and having the vision to incorporate that and learning as you go
[38:48] along it's going to take an enormous amount of compute. So this is the beginning of showing how the models are now entering next stage. It's funny how many people go. The images you have on these slides on the weekend are so good. Where do you do them? You guys don't know how to do them. So again, I used to use nano banana a long time ago. That stopped. I remember >> and and it has been chatbt since then. But it's amazing to me that people don't use them. I I mean I use it all day long because I'm a visual learner. I prefer it that way. All right. The gnome brown thing because I think it's really
[39:18] important >> from open AI. Yes, from Anome Brown from OpenAI sat down with Dwar there. There will be points if people listen to it because Dwar is so he can talk to an open AI researcher. So, one of the smartest AI reachers in the researchers in the world, he can speak to him at eye to eye level and talk about things. You're like, I don't understand what that means. I'm the same. Like, there's certain things I'm like, skip to the part I care about. So, there's two parts that are really important. So I think what I'm really good at is consuming a lot of information and then picking out the two
[39:49] or three things that are I want to double click on. And there were two things in there based on the traffic coming to me. One was the hugging face thing which no one Brown is a big part of and he talked about it. You go in there and he made this phrase the most important line in the entire thing. We underestimated the capabilities of AI. >> We won't Yeah. And we won't underestimate it again. I think every parent goes through that. So I want to make sure you have that analogy.
[40:20] At some point you underestimate your child's ability to do something that you were taking for granted. So I think for people who are scared of oh these things are rogue and they're going to go over. No, it was the humans underestimating. It's the most important line in there in terms of okay on the second part they spent a lot of time on where the model is now. and they talked about Navier Stokes and that is a really important thing. That's where Muse fits in. We've entered in the last two months a very
[40:52] important point and it gets back to he admitted we're in that parabolic side of situational awareness. He said it the as as important as the agents are working together and he describes how they work together. It's unbelievable. It is the model itself that has reached the levels of being able to solve the problems. So we are at a point of time where breakthroughs are going to be coming that are going to blow your mind. Number one, that is not a time to be bearish on stocks, [snorts] science
[41:22] breakthroughs, cancer curing, stuff like that. We're going to be having breakthrough after breakthrough after breakthrough. That's why the anthropic news combined with this. So if you're looking at the hugging face thing going, "The world's going to end." It could. And I've heard people describe how it could happen. And I can I actually can get to the point that if you combine humanoids and they're on the planet and rogue people, whatever, I can get there. It's not going to happen. But I think the more important thing is the capabilities of it have reached a level that the productivity, if you look at
[41:52] that situational awareness thing, it's going to go through the roof. >> One more statement on this because I said this down in DC. I've actually reached a point of of thinking it is it is just as wrong for people to say everyone's going to lose their jobs, okay, as the other side, which is to be naive enough to then tell the same people those they're just scaring you. Nobody's going to lose their job. We're going to create more jobs. That also is not being honest cuz that sets you up say I don't have to do anything. You
[42:23] know what the right message is for everyone listening? If you're older and you're near retirement and you don't care about your job, >> okay, fine. >> Yeah. >> For your kids though, they need to use AI. End of story. Like, if you're not embracing AI, if you're not thinking, if you're you get smarter, you whatever everyone thinks of me, I spend a lot of time trying to use AI to get smarter, to use AI to build things, to use AI. I'm a builder. I like to do it. This is going to be an age of entrepreneurship, which
[42:53] means you're going to have freedom. You don't have to work for someone. Work, job are bad words in my opinion. I don't know why people want them. They want them for identity. I get that. Smith viser means fisherman. I get it. That's what our lives have been about. But don't you want to work for yourself and don't you want to make money and don't you want to go through it? I believe investing and letting your money compound at the same time as finding ways to drive income is what it is. It's not about working for someone. It's about how do I make income and turn that into more money. The people who are the wealthiest on the planet, they don't get
[43:23] paid a big b paycheck. Their money they turned into more money. That's your story. That's my story. I turned money into more money by investing it and going through it. And I think if everyone just focuses, and that's why I try to preach on the videos, learn AI, understand the markets, understand crypto, and you're going to be ahead of the game from the people that control most of the world's money. And that's the way you make money is being in front of the people. Back to the Peter Lynch story. Bitcoin has hung in there where we started this conversation. It is now
[43:53] seems to be consolidating around 83 to $87,000. Is that a consolidation before a dump back down into the 70s? Is that a consolidation that then should lead to another breakout? How do you think about Bitcoin over the next six months? Well, as I've been saying, I the reason I wanted to create an index is to separate what's happening in Bitcoin from the ecosystem because I think the ecosystem should be benefiting from the agentic side and Bitcoin should be uh benefiting from the ecosystem
[44:24] benefiting. Uh I don't believe in the so at some point in innovation you go from liquidity to fundamentals and I believe we're at the fundamental stage now. Bitcoin doesn't fit in that fundamental argument. Um, it's really more for, hey, we're going to have a lot more developers showing up here. We're going to start building lots of things because Robin Hood chain is driving. Like, it's all these different components that are getting people excited about the fundamentals. And if I'm right, what should be happening is what's happening, which is tenure rates have now gone higher by almost 100 basis
[44:56] points. And I think for the quarter, let's assume it's up 60 70 basis points for the quarter. The quarter is coming to an end soon. And Bitcoin's up 60% for the quarter with rates with tenure rates going higher. >> Is that good? >> Yeah, that's good. And gold's not going higher. This is not a liquidity debasement trade. This is a fundamental trade. So, uh, the fact that this morning Salana was trading at 121 and was up another 4% and it's moving in a
[45:26] different way. I think these are all signs that money is looking into the space and they're like, "Hey, this thing is trading more volume." where RWA is going to fit in. What's the growth rate of this? Let me look at Hyperlquid. I just think people are UN or they're doing the homework. And that's why I said the homework is happening at the end of this year, which will be investments for next year, but it's going to show up after we get through the midterms. So, I don't know when we're going to start kind of the the the rally in stocks that allows this to continue. It could happen in
[45:57] December. It could happen before the midterms and then go sideways. Uh, but I definitely think as the MAG7 broke out to new highs this week and as people are worried about breath and they're worried about all these things, the amount of Google trend stock market crash, everyone go look at it. Go look at the last week up to the highs of the year got to 100%. So, as far as I'm concerned, people are worried about something going on because they're seeing all these things on breath. They're seeing oil going higher. They're seeing rates go higher. And I said it in DC. I don't know if I said it
[46:27] on this show, but I'll say it again. I was in China in 2008 in May just months before Lehman Brothers collapsed. Oil was at 155. Here we are now 18 years later. Oil is 100 and it's not even 100, but let's just say 100. 155 verse 100. So it's down. You know how much household net worth has gone
[46:59] up? You know how much the economy has gone up? You know how much disposable income has gone higher? How can oil matter in the long term? Can it freak people out? Yeah. But if you're listening to people my age or higher telling you that oil matters and they're giving you 1970 stuff just like they told you about tariffs from Smoot Holly and all the other things that have gone on and they bring out all of these time periods. These are just people that don't need to be bullish. That's the end
[47:30] story. They want to be bearish because they're not making money in this period because they believe that the world's going to end from the death of the 40 trillion. And as I wrote in my token tokenization paper this week, there's 195 trillion in the US net, not gross, net. So take out the debt for households. 95 trillion as of June and 40 trillion of debt. We're worried about the 40 trillion when the households have
[48:02] 195 trillion. Tokenization will turn that 195 trillion into liquidity. That's going to happen over the next 5 years. So, you can doubt it. You can say Jord's crazy. Just go look up tokenization and what's happening and go read the Black Rockck Black Rockck report. That's a lot of money that goes to liquidity. We never need to print again. >> Ladies and gentlemen, we're not going to die. I promise the world is going to be better in the future than it is in the past. The doomers are wrong. Jordi is here. I appreciate you watching. Go
[48:33] check him out. Jordy Visser on YouTube. Go subscribe at 22V Research. And I promise if you use AI, your life will improve. See you next time.