Will Bitcoin Survive Quantum Computing? | Jordi Visser

[0:00] So quantum is a hardware issue. I want everyone to hear that cuz we're going through this with AI right now. What's slowing down AI development? What's slowing down AI usage? It's hardware. It's the physical world. That's where Quantum's pain point is. Will it get there? He says 20 to 40 years. Other people say 5 to 7. Okay. So his point is this. We will have time to respond to it. Now, part of what Chamath said, which is true today, is what's
[0:31] going on guys? Today's conversation with Jordy Visser is a classic. In this conversation, we talk about quantum computing. Is Bitcoin going to zero? What's going on with the hedge fund unwind? And then we get into how we're actually using AI. What is so inevitable about this technology? How is it going to impact your portfolio? Then we talk about warp sciences. We talk about war dogs, sharks with lasers, all kinds of crazy stuff that's going to get you thinking much more about where are we headed? How should you be allocating your capital and maybe what are some of the areas that you should stay away from as well? Here's my latest conversation
[1:01] with Jordy Visser. Hope you enjoy it. All right, Jordy, let's just start with the big topic. Chimath Palipatia said that Bitcoin's going to zero. >> The big topic. >> Yeah. Do you agree or disagree? I mean, that would be scary, right? I got a lot of my net worth in Bitcoin. Are you worried? >> I'm not worried. >> Okay. >> But I can tell you my subscribers are. >> Okay. and other people that have reached out in expost that I've done that had nothing to do with with Bitcoin. Uh let let me give everyone my thoughts on this because first of all,
[1:32] Chamath is a uh a podcast person for sure. So viral takes, especially when he's on another show, not his own show, become important to his show and his life. So I'm I'm sure this was part of it. Uh, I will leave all the rumors of his own exploration of Bitcoin and how much he'd be worth if he had held what he originally owned or whatever. I I don't get into that part. So, let me just go through the concept of where my head is with with quantum >> cuz because he said it was going to zero because of quantum
[2:02] >> because quantum and that this is old technology and so here are my thoughts on it. First thing is there's a software issue right now and the amount of hackings that we're having currently there's cyber security alerts around the globe. This week there was a website one with PHP Cloudfare went out and talked all about it. Um banks are being hacked at a pace never seen before and Axios had an article on that this week. I just want to make sure people realize
[2:33] that the Axios title we have right here, the internet's hidden security nightmare and how AI exposed it. Another one, Scoop, Madison Mills, one of the better uh AI reporters right now. Scoop, unvetted AI agents are accessing US bank accounts. So here here's the reason that I've thought about this a long time, but the way that I started before I would allow myself, which was in 2020, to make Bitcoin an important part of my net worth, was to understand
[3:08] this concept and get a sense as to what would happen. So the way my brain has dealt with this is very simple. uh AI agents were known to be coming and once they got to the level of 12,000 12 billion a trillion all being able to hack your passwords and that's what I want everyone to think right now you have a gazillion passwords and I'm sure like most people they use the same one over and over again for many of their
[3:38] sites that's easily hacked by agent swarms in 2 seconds hell that's easily hacked by anyone who's trying to get in but now with agent Agent swarms. Everything is being hacked on a regular basis. So a year ago, this was not an issue because we didn't have agent swarms. The reason I'm bringing this up before this, Adam Back, who was involved with the Bitcoin white paper, who's a cryptographer and a PhD in computer science, go look up what Chimath's background is for this. So, if I'm gonna take anything
[4:10] seriously, the research that I did was to listen to Adam back, who you've had on here many times, right? >> Satoshi. Yes. So, his point on this is it's a hardware issue. We will eventually get to the point where quantum So, quantum is a hardware issue. I want everyone to hear that cuz we're going through this with AI right now. What's slowing down AI development? What's slowing down AI usage? It's hardware. It's the physical world.
[4:40] That's where Quantum's pain point is. Will it get there? He says 20 to 40 years. Other people say 5 to 7. Okay. So, his point is this. We will have time to respond to it. Now, part of what Chimath said, which is true today, is the community has to come together on solving this problem, which I agree with. But you know what speeds up crisis management? A crisis. You know what else speeds up crisis management? A crisis in the current world, which is
[5:11] what we're going through right now. Things are going to move to cryptography and then JP Morgan will be involved in the endgame. The fact that all of the banks are now moving to the crypto guardrails, even if it's through they don't want to fall behind, they now have a vested interest every single day to speed up where the Bitcoin solution is. So if you ask me what the solution is, first of all, cryptography is definitely better than what we're on today. There will be some cryptography base
[5:42] because everything will move there and then we have to find the solution on that side. And that is effectively Adam back has made it very non-emotional. I watch him. I've listened to him a bunch of times. I listened to him in 2020 and as many things as possible the same way that I mentioned William >> Mugayar. >> I want to find the people that are older that have experience that are experts in the topic. So what Chamas said is one for headline grabbing two there's some I don't know he missed out on a big investment part that he could have been bigger in. So that's part of it and I
[6:12] really do believe that in the end he doesn't have the credentials to say what he said and the irony is my whole thought has been which I still believe is every day we are entering a very difficult period for established companies. I'm going to be on a panel this week where one of the topics is about the difference between owning equity and owning tokens. So, that is a weird question to me because they're all merging together. What did A16Z do this week with their crypto title and their funds? It's now Frontier. Why did they
[6:42] say Frontier? Because the difference between crypto and any technology, they've all morphed into it. You can't get around it. And what's the reason that they mention in the list? It's what I've talked about repeatedly. The agentic world is here and everything that they're seeing on the front lines, A16Z, they could make no good investments over the next 10 years, but the one thing I know that they have really smart people that have looked at technology at the beginning stages and they're seeing every development that's happening in
[7:12] the AI native world. And if you listen to the interview they did on their podcast this week, which came out today, I'm just telling you, you can't leave and then listen to Chimath and believe what every smart person is involved in right now. and know that we still have seven years to prepare for this. So I find the statement as completely just a joke. >> I have three things. Um you and I think end up in the same uh endgame of agreeing Bitcoin's not going to zero. Quantum is not going to be uh it's a risk that needs to be taken seriously,
[7:43] but it is not going to be the thing that takes down Bitcoin. Knock on wood. Um but I actually like the fact that Chimoth does not have the credentials because um I am a I'm a subscriber to he has this thing learn with me and what my understanding I don't know all the details but my understanding is he hired a team I think out of one of the big consulting firms and was basically like I want to learn about these topics go build me these huge presentations of energy in America and what the problem is uh healthcare you know whatever and
[8:14] so if you subscribe you can get these things and they're like super are intense. They're, you know, tens and tens of slides long that basically break down an entire problem and and explain it. So, I talk about stuff all the time that I'm not quote unquote a credentialed expert in, right? I that part doesn't bother me. Actually, like maybe there's unique thoughts, etc. The part that I think that he maybe is missing on is there's always a cat-and- mouse game between the good guys and the bad guys when it comes to technology. And what
[8:45] you find is usually the good guys have more money than the bad guys, but the bad guys have more time to think about using the technology. And so in a world of abundance, there's a little bit of a weird thing where now the bad guys have access to lots of intelligence, lots of time, the speeding up of time that you've talked about, right? And so cyber security becomes this huge issue. you mentioned some of the things that we saw there, but I still think that the quoteunquote good guys with the money end up being
[9:16] able to resist all of this even though AI is amazing all the stuff and you see that in like who created this technology that then is being weaponized quote unquote good guys let's uh put a lot of quotes around that right but like people who are not trying to go around hacking websites created technology so it just feels like this is another thing that is being said about Bitcoin. By the way, Bitcoin held in strong 80 to $85,000. Doesn't matter what happens with oil. Oil is now, you know, 115 or
[9:46] so. There's tons of concerns about the AI trade, huge sell-offs. Quantum, I mean, we could rattle off 20 things that were said in the last 7 days. Bitcoin just doesn't care, which I think you believe is like a strong data point that it's going to go higher into the end of the year. Yeah, I think now we we saw a small indication of it on I guess was Wednesday. >> Okay. >> The only update of really the week, well, no, there were there in the stock market. It was up Monday, Tuesday, and
[10:16] Wednesday was down big on Thursday. But on Wednesday, which was following the SpaceX news, you had a very large jump the second that people thought, okay, this must be over. We finally got the confirmation that compute demand is off the charts, and Elon's coming to the to to the rescue. um it it immediately went back down the next day, but yeah, Bitcoin has just held in there. And if I tell people the damage that's been done to hedge funds, I mean, this is a historic month, more so than even July, believe it or not. This is much bigger
[10:47] month than July was. >> Negative for hedge funds. >> Yes. And and that's because of the breath of the the damage. Um, before I get into the expanding breath and the contagion within the hedge fun, I do I do want to um add to something you said because I do agree that people like Chimoth that have a huge listener base, it's good for people to say the things that he said as part of the process cuz he also fits into something Mark Andre said. Uh, if you
[11:18] ask me the smartest person, the person that I will listen to no matter what, who I believe brings to the table an incredible knowledge of history, a relaxed, you know, response with no hyperbole. I I Mark Andre is number one for me. Okay. I can listen to him endlessly. >> Uh, >> he's very smart. >> Yeah. And he's not selling anything. Um, what's the biggest problem with Jensen Yuang? At the end of the day, he's talking his book. What's the biggest problem with with Elon Musk? He's
[11:49] talking his book. And this is a big negative for everyone. When I go through X, like if people attack me, it's cuz he he's talking his book. >> Um >> I never talk my book. >> Yes. >> Sylvia.com. >> Go ahead. >> Um what Mark said on the podcast, which is something I believe in, but it's the reason that I got involved in Bitcoin in the first place. I've told this story before, but you have to understand when my 13-year-old son had turned $700 into
[12:19] $80,000, subsequently losing all of it, okay? Which I say repeatedly, I knew there was a bubble in 2021, but it also told me that there was something here because when I asked him how he did this, it was really intelligent. And when you normalize it for a 13-year-old, I realized that the gaming that he was really good at was adding to his ability to go use Reddit and Twitter and do research and do this. He was adapting to the times and he believed in Bitcoin. He didn't believe in the S&P 500. Now, that
[12:50] age bracket, it's still the same. What Mark talked about on the podcast, the A16Z Frontier podcast was he said there is an age bracket for technology that has been there and I forget the book that he referenced but he basically said the way it goes is up until you know 15 to 25 it's just part of your life and that's where my son was. So let's assume whatever the age was 13 to 21. It's just part of your life. Like crypto is just you know it. AI is something you just
[13:21] know. Then from 25 to 35, you're focused on AI from making money. That's where my son is kind of now is figuring out how he's going to set his life up job-wise with using this technology. And then above 35, you view it as evil. Any new technology. And that is the whole point about whether it's crypto, whether it's Bitcoin or whether it's AI. That is why people are perma bears on AI. There is zero doubt that AI is the inevitable part of our lives.
[13:51] Like there's no question about it. It's where all the investments are going. And if the investments are going there, you can have corrections. You can even have the.com bubble where you get a 4-year delay between the bottom and then the iPhone. But it's coming. Like there's no way to get around it. It's going to solve healthcare, all these different issues. So I think when you really break down what you just talked about and where it goes, there is an element of the age thing and Chimath is in that age bracket where psychologically he's already made his money. He has no reason
[14:21] to believe in in Bitcoin. There's nothing there for him. And as Michael Sailor said, you don't find Bitcoin, Bitcoin finds you. Now, let's go back to the point on the hedge fund side in France this week. We saw a mass, and this has gone on now for seven weeks, a massive blowout. careful careful what words you use. >> You talk about the financial market or the streets. >> True, true, true. Um, we'll leave the the social aspect alone, but you have
[14:51] French bond yields versus German bond yields or versus the swap curve without getting too wonky blowing out, which basically means the unwind of a carry trade. So if you were long French bond yields and you were short German von you were getting a spread that was let's say 125 basis points if you just carried it. So as long as France doesn't default and you carry it for a long time and this was happening across the curve you make money well and you do with leverage. >> Yes. And that started to unwind. We
[15:23] started seeing news articles come out but it has really accelerated this week. In fact, the first four days of this week were just the biggest week, even bigger than the EU crisis week back in 2011 2012, that whole period there. So, you had that, you had the core debt, so you had credit that had unwound. The reason that's important is all of the big multistrats that you get to see, you know, in that are 100red billion, whatever, and they're levered 20 times, say, so you're dealing with trillions of
[15:53] dollars of they're dependent on if one asset breaks down, it doesn't really matter because you have 50 other strategies that could make money. Relative arbitrage, add deletes, all kinds of different things. But when credit gets hit, fixed income bonds get hit, regions get hit, the diversity, the diversification benefits drop down and you end up seeing what you've seen. And Goldman Sachs reported last week that
[16:23] since 2020 after co there had only been 3 days that the major strategies so long short equity uh quant and then multistrats were down more than 80 basit points in one day. All three strategies so at least 80 basis it happened three times since co all three of those were this year. Well, we had another one on Thursday of this week. This one was greater than 1% for each of them. So, that just means that this is not just long short equity. This
[16:54] is everything going at the same time. And I mentioned that this reminds me of LTCM. It does. It also reminds me of the quant back in August of 2007. So, I bring that up because as people are watching like what's happening and going, why why are these semiconductor stocks down? And I saw something today that the best performing stocks this year, the 20 best performing stocks were down yesterday, like 5 to 10%. And when you go look at the they're still up like 100 plus%. And most of these are the AI names. So I'm telling everyone listening, number one, I did a video on
[17:25] this. This is not a bubble. AI is not a bubble. It's inevitable. End of story. Um, there can be delays and there can be hiccups. And here's the thing, there are no free lunches. And I remember I said this to you back in May and June on on on videos. people can go look them up on their own. There are no free lunches in markets. Markets go up and then they correct. And so far, the S&P 500 is still up over 12% year to date. And we just had a massive unwind. I don't know when this is officially going to end, but I will say that yesterday felt
[17:55] exactly like situational awareness day because it started right after the close on Wednesday. I pick my phone up and as I do before I kind of start getting ready for bed, I look to see where the S&P futures were and there was no reason for them to be down close to 30 handles, which says to me there was a fund that was in trouble and we're just kind of going through this thing. I think we're near the end of it. If not, I gave the dates that I thought for people would be the catalyst. One is when we get through the the hyperscalers. We went through meta. Nothing bad came out in there, but
[18:26] it's still sold off. um we have the hyperscalers and then we have the midterms and we have the quarterly refunding announcement. Those will be the three areas. So I think the low for this AI portion will happen with inside the next two weeks. Today's episode is brought to you by Arch Public. Arch Public has just expanded its agentic trading platform beyond crypto. So pay attention. This is a big one. Now they are automating strategies across stocks, commodities, and ETFs. And I think that this is going to be huge. You can now automatically take profits when one market hits new all-time highs and
[18:56] rotate that capital into other markets showing more opportunity. Whether you're rotating capital into AI stocks, gold, if you're investing in the S&P 500, or you're accumulating Bitcoin, Arch Public brings real discipline and automation to your investment strategy. Additionally, they've launched a powerful new tax loss harvesting tool. With crypto being so volatile and its exemption from the wash sale rule, Arch Public can offset gains with losses without compromising your long-term positions. It's exactly what every serious investor does. Institutional grade automation that works across every major asset class.
[19:27] There's no more emotional trading. No more missing tax opportunities. Just smarter, hands-free execution of your preferred strategies. Go to archpubic.com right now. Connect with our team. Set up a time. Bring your accountant if you'd like. Then you can learn what automated trading can do for you. archpubic.com. I do think uh the uncertainty around the midterms, not uncertainty like fear-based, just like who's going to win naturally plays into this. Plus, you get the AI fears and so it's very clear there's like a bunch of clouds, if you will. The second the midterms occur, the
[19:59] clouds will part, the sun will come up into the end of the year, uh likely as strong. Um, you mentioned AI is inevitable and uh I've been thinking a lot. So maybe I will uh uh debut my new uh um phrase for the next couple of years. AI is smarter than you, smarter than me, smarter than everybody watching. We have officially reached that point. >> It's smarter than hedge fund managers too. >> 100%. Yeah, >> that is the 0ero to one moment that
[20:29] every single thing in my world view I have updated in the last 3 to 4 months on the premise that AI is now smarter than me. So how do I give it as much context as possible? How do products change? How do asset prices change? How does the funding rate change? What do hedge funds do? All this stuff now boils down to AI is smarter. I always say that investors get one idea in their entire life to invest on and they just expose it over and over again. Warren Buffett buy things for less than they're worth.
[20:59] He just did it a bunch of times and built an incredible amount of wealth. You know, if you go and you look at the rent tech guys, there's math and there's inefficiencies, all this stuff. You just go invest in I think that our entire generation, the one big idea is they're never going to stop printing money. I think a 1A now though is there is now technology that is going to be way smarter than us. It's already smarter than us, but it's only going to get worse. I AI pill a boomer this week, and I want to tell you uh some of the details
[21:29] because it actually had more of an impact on me than it did on them. There's an individual that I know, a piece of commercial real estate. They're trying to sell it. They've been trying to sell it for a while. And I they kind of every once in a while when I talk to them, they mention it and I say, you know, let me try to help you. So, I took the address and I put it into Grockbot and I said, "Hey, this thing hasn't sold. I want to try to sell it in the next 45 days. Come up with a plan, do the research, you know, all the things you would expect." It did what you would look at. It went and it found comps and
[21:59] it built the whole plan, whatever. And then it did something that I would have never personally thought to do. It went and it looked through all of the local real estate like land uh sales and it gave me a target list of people who have been buying up land in that area and said you might want to just call these people and see if they're interested. And I literally it was like a whoa and I called up this person and I said hey look at how smart I am. I have this list
[22:29] and then I eventually told him I said the AI created it. And so I've been thinking about this one moment where I'm like, how many people do you know who have ever listed any piece of real estate, residential, commercial, whatever, have ever thought maybe I should go build a target list to do outbound sales for the real estate. That's not something that you just like train on. And so the reason I say that is this idea of like AI is inevitable. Well, like if it's smarter than us and it can do things like that, then actually the race is not like just the
[22:59] hyperscalers and building and all this for people who are not involved in those businesses. It's actually how much penetration can you get AI into your life? How much are you going to use it? And the people who get there first, they're actually the ones who are going to be most successful and have the most productivity and all stuff. >> But investing wise, let's just shrink it down to that investing world. >> I know some people who use checkp claude whatever Google on steroids I think you use it much more advanced than that but
[23:30] there's somebody out there who's created a you know AI agent hedge fund that's trying to day trade whatever the further along that curve you get the better your return should be the better your finances should be and it just feels like when you view the world that way the people who are like AI is a bubble AI is not going to happen >> they kind of just sound stupid right like It's it's like so far behind. It's such a dinosaur world. What are we talking about? >> All right. So, let me give you two um forks on on this topic. And I think this
[24:02] is important. In fact, I'm going to direct it towards the parents. Um, so first I'm going to use a conversation I had with a friend of mine uh who I hadn't seen in a decade was in town and this person uh close to 40 decided to go back to school went to law school. So my first question was so how is school you know what Harvey is? And the person said yeah they were in the tech field.
[24:32] Okay. Yeah I know what Harvey is. Okay. um how's that impacting the way you view since you know it, how is this school, which is a really good school in New York, >> Mhm. >> dealing with this issue? >> And the person said it's it's incredible. It's almost like they're ignoring it, but to make it worse, and I I've I heard I've heard a lot of stuff. I've never heard this. Before they enter the classroom, they have to they can't enter
[25:02] with any technology. No phones, excuse me, no laptops, no nothing. >> This is what they've come up with at the schools. >> This is a law school. >> This is a prominent law school that every single person listening to this know. So, I don't want to get into the conversation because number one, I trust this person implicitly. And they didn't do it for any other reason. In fact, completely the opposite. This person is I only hang around with people that are very down to earth and can have deep emotional conversations and really enjoy the topic of where things are going. And
[25:32] this was literally like, "No, they don't know how to handle it. This is their solution. Their solution is we can't police it." And I understand why because recording devices, you don't need the professor anymore. >> You just have AI listen to it and then you're taking away the whole thing. But also, you don't know whose work is done. And my first response was, you know, who's going to know people that didn't do any work? the people that hire the person, the people like if you're not
[26:03] using AI in a creative way to get back to your point, you're making a this is what schools are doing to kids. Okay, this is unacceptable. Like this is unbelievable. >> You're making them raw dog classroom. That's crazy. >> Okay, we're we're teaching. You guys have to memorize. >> Y'all crazy out there. >> Um no phone. I'm surprised it's not withdrawal happened in the classroom. So, let me take what you did and connect it back to that same son I mentioned who's no longer 13. Okay? He's now a
[26:35] junior in college. So, as you go through this whole thing and you listen to what he's saying, so he's on an internship. >> Mhm. that internship. He tells me how excited he gets whenever there's a meeting because he enters the meeting and all he does is listen to the problems and he leaves with a ton of ideas because his goal is to please the people by solving their ideas with agentic workflows. >> Grock's just built the solution by the
[27:05] time the meeting's over. >> But and that he's been doing this now since July. >> Yeah. >> They don't want him to go back to school. He and I are talking about whether it makes sense for him to go back to school and finish up or not. >> If you don't allow your kids to use it, and this is the beauty of it, this whole like reverse engineering now, >> if your brain doesn't work when you hear something, you go, I can make money off that. I can make money off that. And you're trying to graduate with a degree where you're going to make money by graduating and being one of like those days are over. That is not the way this
[27:36] is going to work. And if you listen to what the A16Z podcast talk about, Mark literally said the gap between AI native companies and the incumbents has never been wider. Like it just keeps getting further apart. So you don't want your kids to go to one of these incumbent places. You actually want them to have these entrepreneurial skills that you're describing and create an idea that can monetize and turn into something. If you're a lawyer, you want to embrace using Harvey because Harvey can't
[28:06] replace all lawyers, but it can certainly speed up the process of being a great lawyer. I have a lot of ideas on what to do with my business cuz I think content keeps going up in value just like sports teams. But let me rephrase it. Good content. Content where you're actually trying to teach the people. You're trying to not scare the people and you're actually trying to get them to be empowered. I actually think there's value to that which is why I started to do this. I think when you start thinking about the issues and how
[28:36] you can leverage AI into your business, you start to get more empowered, but you also start to get a realization that there's infinite amounts of ideas of problems that need to be solved. And the reason is because most people don't use AI. It is also um I've been thinking a lot about active versus passive usage. So active usage is like I go to chatbt and I ask it a question. I had to type. Passive usage is every meeting is recorded. The AI takes the transcript, creates notes, emails the notes to
[29:06] everybody and uh then stores it somewhere so it can be referenced as context later. The passive usage to me is where most of the magic is. We see this with the proactivity of instinct, muse, dots, you know, Grockbot, whatever. And so as the world shifts more and more to the technology being available in a passive manner but like it's like passive plus automation >> you start thinking inside these businesses like we are going to just have autonomy like like it is going to
[29:38] become this autonomous thing inside of a company. Now there's a couple other things that I think are uh fascinating. I've told you before that um we have more agents that work at the public company than we do people. Right. Okay. I don't think that that's something for us to like beat our chest about. I think like that's becoming prevalent across a lot of companies. But recently uh we started thinking about okay we've been using most of the agents for analytics engineering you know things that are more uh kind of productivity and like product based
[30:09] now we're thinking about finance and operations. And so I went to finance operations folks I said hey what would you like? They started coming up with all kinds of use cases that I would have never thought of. And I said you know what's interesting? What if I just take what was essentially a brainstorm and I just feed it into you know whether it's Grockbox or something else and then I ask it >> ideas like this but make more of them you know like what else could we do it started coming up with a bunch more and like you just realize you're like wait a second here there is this very weird like relationship between the human and
[30:39] the machine where you're just going back and forth back and forth that then if you bring this back to the investor in the portfolio I have a portfolio I hear the bears yelling and screaming And there all kinds of things from interest rates, inflation to, you know, capex spending, whatever. But I talked to Dan Ies this week. He went to Korea and I asked him, I said, "What would your message to the bears be?" And he said, "Go to Korea." He said, "Go see the demand. You're saying look at what everyone is
[31:10] saying from the demand side." And so I just am separating the world out. Like there are people who are demand driven and that's what they're looking at and they're like, "How could we possibly be in a bubble? How can we possibly have this go to zero? And then there's people who are like, did you see how much money met Meta spent? >> And you're like, you kind of need the demand side of the equation to know whether this is a bubble or not. Right? >> So, I'm going to take a weird direction on on what you just said. And and I don't know how much I' I've brought this up, but um so let's use this proactive
[31:41] reactive thing. Okay. >> So, here's um a scenario that I'll equate to the relationship between AI and your life and how to use it in a way or a similar way to help people use their relationship with their therapist. Today's episode is brought to you by Abra. Bitcoin holders know the long game, but sometimes you want liquidity today or a way to pursue more Bitcoin over time. That's why Abra caught my attention. It offers two different ways to make your Bitcoin holdings work harder depending on what your goals are.
[32:12] If you need dollars without selling your Bitcoin, then you can explore Bitcoin backed loans with US dollars or USDC borrowing options. You can review the terms and compare rates at abra.com/pump. Thinking longer term? Explore Abra's Bitcoin yield strategy managed by SEC registered investment advisor Abra Capital Management. It aims to generate yield denominated in Bitcoin which can have a strong compounding effect over time. I recently spoke with Abra CEO Bill Barheight on the show for a much deeper exploration on Abra tokenization and more. Go and check it out. And if
[32:44] either approach interests you, visit abra.com/p to learn more. Abra is a paid sponsor. This is not investment advice. Loans and yield strategies carry risks, including liquidation and loss of principle. Returns aren't guaranteed. Go check them out at abroad.com/p. Today's episode is brought to you by Uphold. Are you someone who's tired of juggling multiple apps just to trade, earn, stake, or spend your crypto? Then listen up because Uphold does all of that in one single unified platform. You can access 300 plus crypto and fiat
[33:14] currencies with an interface that works for you whether you're a beginner or an expert. Uphold also features any to any swaps where you can swap crypto to fiat, fiat to metals, and tokens to tokens directly in the app. If you prefer self-custody, Uphold's vault gives you multi-stig security, key recovery, direct trading access, and peace of mind without giving up convenience. Uphold is also 100% reserved, meaning no fractional practices, and proof of reserves are updated every 30 seconds, so you can verify your assets anytime.
[33:44] For US users, you can even earn yield on dollars with the USD interest account. No fees, no minimums, and funds are insured up to $2.5 million through the Atomic Cash Suite program. If you want one app for your entire digital asset life, check out upphold today. Go to upph uphold.com to learn more. Uphold.com. Go check them out today. So, here's um a scenario that I'll equate to the relationship between AI and your life and how to use it in a way or a
[34:16] similar way to how people use their relationship with their therapist. Okay. So when I was very young, I read something and if I read a quote in anything and this is the reason why when I was younger, I would read the great thinkers of the world. >> Was it a book? >> Uh it probably was an excerpt in a book. Like to give you an idea, Ralph Waldo Emerson, life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. That grabbed me and I've I've I've
[34:46] memorized it. I say it all the time. There are certain things like that that that grab me. But one of the things was you can't love others until you love yourself. And I really thought about that and that got me into Freud. It got me into why would I have any chip on my shoulder towards my parents? What what is that about? What does that mean? Why is it driving me? Because I'm a very driven person still to this age. And a lot of it comes from my relationship with my father. And so I wanted to
[35:18] understand that because I wanted to love who I was at a young age, but I also wanted to make sure that I had no the chip was not anger. It was just gratitude. I wanted to turn it in there. So that led to me spending a lot of time with Sigman Freud and and evolving into other of the great psychologists/ psychiatrists and I still believe psychology is a really important part in the markets. Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett. I view them as market psychologists as as much as anything. I wanted to learn from those those types
[35:48] of people. Um, and that gets me back to the relationship that I think people should be building with AI. And there's a very easy way to do what you said. I think with personal agents, with Muse right now, if people haven't done this, I want you whatever time of the week is import is is free for you. 8:00 on on Friday morning or 4:00 on Friday afternoon, Saturday morning at 6, whatever time is free. Have Muse at the end at that time every
[36:19] week ask you 10 questions about are you happy with your life? Are you happy with your workout? Are you happy with your diet? Are you happy with work? Are you happy? Like, and just say it. Get it out. And then it can run off. in the goal and you could say the goal is for you to hear what I'm saying and then come back with things that could make we can improve on this literally like a brainstorming session not with a therapist but with someone that understands your life. The more that you do this and get used to this I think
[36:50] you're going to start to realize if it's your business like you're talking about and I have a business that I'm building and I'm very excited about where it can go. I'm very excited to help people embrace this. I did something last weekend on or two last week on compounding and describing why why a construction worker son whose father didn't go to graduate high school got into the markets. Why did that happen? Well, it happened because my math brain was really good. My father taught me well in probabilities. But it really happened for one reason. I got a book
[37:21] and on one page of the book, it said if you double a penny every day, it's $10.7 million. And I went whoa. And the power of compounding is one of the coolest things in the world. and compounding with AI is vital in your life. Now, if you believe it's a bubble, by definition, you're losing the compounding nature of both from an investment standpoint and a usage standpoint. Plain and simple. It is compounding at a pace never before seen in technology. So, that power of compounding that I identified as a young kid when I was 16 years old that drove me into this who didn't know what he was
[37:52] going to do. He just knew he didn't want to do construction work. He wanted to be a compounder. Then you learn Moore's law and what's Moore's law? exponential compounding. It's the exact same thing as the penny doubled. In fact, most books with technology. So, if you're messing with your future of your kids because you believe AI is a bubble when it's an inevitability that it will be part of our life and that it'll be disrupting the people who don't embrace it, I think the first step to leverage what you said is take AI and make it a life coach. Make it a life coach asking
[38:22] you the same questions every week and it'll remind you, did you do what we said last week? And I won't go through the things I've already done that with, but in particular, I get hyperfocused on, hey, I want to improve my health a little bit this week. What science will do this? Those types of things to me are really important for people to embrace. So, I'm I'm going to leverage what you said and just say this is somewhat like therapy. >> I love this idea because um it is human in the loop like recursive learning. Yeah. >> Right. And um >> and compounding of every week going through it, the routine of it.
[38:53] >> Correct. And I I do think that um every uh every week I put together a company update and in it I want to make sure that we talk about what we did in the past week, what we're going to do in the next week. Not that rocket science, but every morning I put priorities into Slack to a certain group of people and I basically say here's all the things I got to work on. And some days it's longer than others, but I put it all in there. And what I have found is it's really helpful for me at the beginning of the day to write down here's things I'm going to work on. But then at the
[39:23] end of the week I say hey Grock go through that thread and pull all the things that we got done this week. >> Magic. And you do that week after week after week and hey for the month or the quarter or you know whatever. And so you're just feeding it information as you go. Now we're talking about corporate applications of this stuff or personal applications. There are two companies this week that came out that I want to talk about. First is Warp Sciences. >> Before you do this, I just want to interact sec for for 30 seconds. The
[39:53] thread, I want to get people off of this thing cuz I think it freaks people out cuz then they have they have so many threads, they're trying to go find it. Muse is built for memory. It is the best model out there right now for memory. They spent the time to release it because it needs to have memory. I use Muse a ton right now because it remembers everything, my recipes. And so I don't need to go back and find the thread. And even though I know you were just saying that because you can do the same thing with Grockbot, I just want to remind people if you've had frustrations with finding that thread because that's
[40:25] where the memory is and that's where you've been doing that conversation. You don't need to do that with Muse. Go. >> So I'll take it a step further actually. uh if people want actionable things of what to do with their AI, let's say you're using Muse and let's just say you've never used another AI ever before as your first kind of experience. As you're communicating with it, it's saving all that stuff in memory, but then all of a sudden Anthropics Duet comes out or dots or Grockbot or you know whatever. One of the very simple things you can do is you can basically say to whatever AI you use, hey, I want
[40:56] to have a backup of your memory and we can do it in Google Drive, we can do it in notion, we can do it in Obsidian. Uh drove files is something that we built, right? Whatever. I want at the end of every day or every week for you to take all of the new information that you've saved in your memory and I simply want you to write it to the backup. And then if something new comes out, you could say, "Hey, by the way, rather than me sit here and tell you all this new information that I previously had told you, just reference that notion document, that Google drive, whatever." The people who have done this are like,
[41:26] "Now I can actually use four or five of these different things cuz Muse is really good at A, B, and C. This other one's really good at this other thing, but they all have shared memory, and they're constantly feeding it back." And actually, the memory becomes the really important part, right? >> Yep. And so, let's take a step. Everyone has heard how good for you a daily journal is. So, let's just like what what what went on. Um, no, there's a lot. I mean, writing down your thoughts, >> having a gratitude diary, which I mean, I keep track of the things I'm grateful for. This started after 9/11. Like, I
[41:56] had to do a eulogy on my best friend. And my thought was, I have to turn this into gratitude that I got to know this person at all and the impact I had on my life. >> So, when people died, it became less about the tragedy and more about focusing on the gratitude. And that's what helped me get through it in that way. So if you go in muse at the end of every day for a minute and just say this is what I'm grateful for today plus this is what I want to remember that happened today. Then in a month if you go back and say hey will you go through the daily
[42:26] journal and just take the last 30 days what have I said like what's the progress of what's gone on in my life what have I talked about repeatedly is there anything with inside the insights I'm just telling people that doing that type of stuff is going to become the norm and being able to be happy again if you don't love yourself >> you'll love the AI >> you can't love others and this is where I really do believe that technology has made people not like themselves as much as they should and I think there's a lot more anger in the world and I do believe
[42:56] that as time goes on technology will have if you use it to help you and help you all these things your health your finances your job but most importantly if you become optimistic right now and empowered you're ahead of 99% of the people as far as I'm concerned >> 100% I I could not agree more don't fall in love with the AI is my only warning it's like you know smoking can cause cancer. Talking too much to the AI about personal feelings could uh make you fall
[43:26] in love. Um I don't know. I'm not speaking from personal experience. Um Warp Sciences. So Kevin Wheel, uh amazing guy, a great entrepreneur and operator. Uh he was the former chief product officer at OpenAI. He has now started a company where he basically wants to be at the forefront of AI, biotech, healthcare, etc. You've been talking a lot about this. Um is one. And then two, war hounds. Palmer Lucky and uh this biotech company
[43:58] uh that's been working on animals. They're collaborating and they are creating war hounds which is they're going to create genetically modified dogs to put on the battlefield and Anderville is going to make them special gear. So, you know, it's pretty crazy. You're going to have genetically modified and amazing rabid war dogs that we then are going to put and gear on, including lasers and visuals and packs. I mean, this is where we're going.
[44:28] >> Sharks with laser beams. Is that what we're talking >> Listen, are you saying they're not real? Are you saying they're not real, Jordy? Come on. The uh I mean, but but if you start to look at some of these things, they all on oneoff, you're like, "Oh, okay. AI and biotech. Interesting. It's a nice company. >> Warhounds. Oh, Palmer's being a little crazy. Whatever. But wait a second. When you zoom out and you look at these companies, like we are in the economic boom. We are in the like, you know, there's the J curve
[44:59] where you're you're negative. >> Mhm. >> We're positive, baby. We we are up and to the right aggressively in terms of ambition, technology, innovation, the acceleration of these companies. These war hounds, by the way, you want to try to guess the valuation coming out of the gate? >> What is it? >> Billion. >> Yeah, >> the dogs are worth a billion. >> Um, so >> you want one of the genetically modified dogs? >> No. I'm going to give people two two good stories. Okay. >> Jordy walking around Brooklyn with a
[45:30] genetically modified war dog. At the very end of the A16Z podcast, probably the most important thing for people that I think everyone will raise their hand and say, "I want that immediately." What they said was, "This was not one of them. So, they've obviously seen this or they've heard it from someone is basically, we'll soon be able to understand what our animals and pets are saying to us." Okay? Convert their language into what's happening. So that's more of a rather than war dogs
[46:01] being able to understand your animals much more as far as I'm concerned for people out there cuz pets is a huge thing I can tell you Williamsburg it's it's very difficult to walk around Williamsburg and not see people's pets and what the pets do. So >> so imagine if you had a war dog he'd be the big dog of the block. >> Um the second thing I want to get back to something I've written about and I think is really important. So in this week of AI destruction a company made a new all-time high. valuation is quickly rising the ranks, especially relative to the other ones at
[46:32] the top of the list, and that would be Eli Liy. >> Come on, take your victory lap. >> No, no, no. It's not a victory lap yet until it's the biggest company in the United States of America, which I will continue to say will happen within 5 years. >> You think it'll be bigger than Nvidia, all these guys, >> bigger than all of them. Um, and there's a reason, and this is the reason why what can't be disrupted the next 5 years is helping people get better. There's a very slow process that has to get in before human beings are allowed to take and ingest pills.
[47:02] >> Ompic has helped a lot of people in the country based on the fact that people are not going to die from diabetes and all types of other ailments or or things that it's had an impact in or growing. This weekend I will talk a lot about Toon Lab. I did a subscriber video this week where I highlighted but here's the thing. Eli Liy made new all-time highs this week. The S&P 1500 life sciences, biotech, and pharma index made new 52- week highs during a week where
[47:32] everything related to AI is going down. You know what the power of that is? The reason that Nvidia to me is seeing its multiple go down is because it will eventually be disrupted in some way. >> Mhm. >> In the next 5 years, I don't know, but the market's building in that it will be disrupted. If you ask me, they are the safest company to own. Do I think they will continue to go higher? It's one of my biggest longs. My biggest long as of right now is Eli Liy. Then we've got Nvidia. Then we've got Marll. So I have
[48:03] basically my AI trade. >> Marvel. Let's go speed it up. So what you have is the reason this is so important. We're getting to the point that people have to start to realize that when they worry about energy prices like oil, okay, energy of personal consumption is now less than 3%. Healthcare is 20 plus%. It's about 22 to 23 depending on how you go through the measurement. It's non-yclical. It's funded by both the government and insurance companies that you work for.
[48:33] Meaning you get sick, you go, it's paid for. So that's why it's a non-yclical part. So it has the AI benefit of drug discovery of everything associated. It already is a massive it is the number one thing people spend on in the country. Number one, transfer home way lower, house, autos way lower. This was not the case 40 years ago. So during the 1970s when energy was a big deal, you go back and look at healthcare, it was nothing compared to your house and your
[49:03] home. So heating it and driving it was very very much related to energy in one part. It was also related to interest rates. Healthcare doesn't have that. So if you're worried about the AI buildout and the delays, get long the healthcare sector. And that's what you're starting to see is rotation into sectors that do not have cyclicality. Nvidia is still a cyclical company. Micron is still a cyclical company. If there's a delay, if there's an overpurchase of GPUs and we can't get the power, well then at some point Nvidia is not going to sell as many chips because people won't store
[49:34] them anymore. Right now there's a lot of places that have a lot of GPUs because they know they're going to need them in 5 years, four years, 3 years, 2 years. If we can't get the power done, then they don't happen. So I think on on the side of the breakthrough side, we are entering that period where the breakthroughs are going to start to become the place to invest because they're mispriced because pharmaceutical companies historically traded a very low multiple and the reason is cuz they're safe and they don't have any cyclicality meaning there's no growth. If these are
[50:04] becoming growth stocks, which Eli Liy has been, and for people who don't know this, you may not know this. Eli Liy has been up 10 years in a row. There's no tech companies that have done that. 10 years in a row. Okay? So, none of the big tech companies, they were almost all of them were down in 2022. Not Eli Liy. 10 years in a row. You know what its kager is over the 10 years? Over 30%. You've made a lot of money if you've just sat in Eli Liy purely based on Ozmpic. But I can lone >> I will say it again. Eli Lilly's cash
[50:36] cow allows them to do things like Toon Lab. I talked about Harvey. If people have now looked up Harvey and they're like, "Oh my gosh, this is where all the lawyers are coming together." Go look at what Toon Lab is and just see that they now have 135 different companies that are putting in information on their IP into this supercomput that Eli Liy set up so that all of them can benefit and collaborate like a Manhattan style project on the information to try and solve their we are going to solve a lot
[51:06] of different things going forward and this is going to be a big part of the next 5 years. >> Ladies and gentlemen, that's what we call mic drop. That's it for today. Go check him out on YouTube. Just search Jordy Visser. His Sunday video is excellent. I highly recommend it. Go check out sylvia at sylvia.com. Secure, private, accurate AI agent to better manage your finances. Jordy, thank you very much. See you guys next week.