Lenny: I see. So essentially your approach is category can play a part of this, but there's a bigger question you have of what's the story, what's the movement, what are the obstacles and categories and element of that potentially? Andy Raskin: I mean, I almost see them as orthogonal, like with HubSpot. HubSpot had this narrative around inbound. It used to be just outbound stuff, now we're going to have inbound. And that wasn't really a category. Back then they were probably known as marketing automation. Now they're probably known as CRM because they've broadened. But this movement is the thing that's sort of the constant and in some ways orthogonal to whatever category they're in.
Now they're probably known as CRM because they've broadened.