Lenny: So let's talk about it if people need to hear it, which I agree. So you've been talking about this concept of product management theater and product leadership theater. Let's get into it. What does that look like? What is the sign that you're in this theater versus doing it the way you should be doing it? Marty Cagan: There is no question that a lot of companies overhired during the pandemic. That was easy to see even while it was going on. And it's not just that they overhired, a lot of them lowered the bar. But at the same time, of course we have a change in the financial world that has really increased the cost of funds. And that's another thing going on simultaneously. And probably one of the biggest things of all, and this is the hardest because it's not happened yet, is the predicted impact of generative AI, right? I don't know if you saw, literally the CEO of NVIDIA the other day was saying don't learn programming.
I don't know if you saw, literally the CEO of NVIDIA the other day was saying don't learn programming.