Lenny Rachitsky: It makes me think about just the alignment problem. Got to keep this God in a box. Sander Schulhoff: Not only do you have a God in the box, but that God is angry, that God is malicious, that God wants to hurt you. Can we control that malicious AI and make it useful to us and make sure nothing bad happens? Lenny Rachitsky: Today, my guest is Sander Schulhoff. This is a really important and serious conversation and you'll soon see why. Sander is a leading researcher in the field of adversarial robustness, which is basically the art and science of getting AI systems to do things that they should not do, like telling you how to build a bomb, changing things in your company database, or emailing bad guys all of your company's internal secrets. He runs what was the first and is now the biggest AI red teaming competition. He works with the leading AI labs on their own model defenses. He teaches the leading course on AI red teaming and AI security, and through all of this has a really unique lens into the state of the art in AI. What Sander shares in this conversation is likely to cause quite a stir, that essentially all the AI systems that we use day-to-day are open to being tricked to do things that they shouldn't do through prompt injection attacks and jailbreaks, and that there really isn't a solution to this problem for a number of reasons that you'll hear.
He works with the leading AI labs on their own model defenses.