Anthony Pompliano

Dogecoin & Bitcoin Are Both Signaling Something Big?

🇬🇧 EN🇪🇸 ES
BitcoinMacro
Complete 51:19 min youtube 2026 Week 20 May 17, 2026 🇬🇧 EN
TL;DR
Research summary

▶ A narrow, AI-led market rally

The introduction previews discussion of macro conditions, rates, inflation, Bitcoin, and Dogecoin. Asked about repeated stock-market highs, Visser says AI is driving the advance, with semiconductors acting as fuel and the main source of speculation. He argues the rally is narrow: recent sessions have seen many 52-week lows, only around 50% of stocks are above their 200-day moving average, and weakness is visible in software and consumer names such as McDonald's, Nike, and Whirlpool. He interprets consumer-stock declines as a warning about economic weakness, alongside rising rates and oil. He describes semiconductors as stretched and vulnerable to profit-taking, and says memory-price signals, energy costs, and anticipated higher food prices support his view that inflation pressures are returning.

▶ Inflation, rates, and debt pressures

The interviewer asks whether oil prices and inflation could fall after the Iran conflict ends. Visser says Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is advocating for that outcome, but argues negotiations around the Strait of Hormuz are not fully under one side's control. He focuses on inflation surprises rather than whether individual monthly readings decline: he cites CPI readings of 0.6 and 0.9, upside surprises in PPI and import prices, and says some inflation data began rising before the war. He points to three-month bills at 3.69 and year-over-year inflation at 3.8, warning that repeated 0.5 monthly readings would imply inflation above 6% year over year. He also argues that a Supreme Court ruling affecting trucking brokers could constrain capacity as diesel prices and trucking rates rise, adding to bottlenecks in semiconductors, memory, CPUs, transformers, and gas turbines. Visser frames higher nominal GDP as one possible way to address debt, but says rising rates renew debt concerns, citing annual interest expense of $1.2 trillion. He calls the inflation episode transitory but says its duration matters; six more months of rising year-over-year CPI could pressure markets. He expects possible semiconductor profit-taking and says investors may be underestimating how long inflation could persist.

▶ Rate uncertainty and energy exposure

The interviewer contrasts inflation's potential to lift asset prices with the risk that higher inflation forces rate increases. Visser says rates and debt are the missing parts of that argument: higher rates have hurt markets since the COVID-era overprinting, as interest expense and debt concerns rise. He says recent earnings were strong but may reflect front-loaded purchases of memory and semiconductor chips; memory-price growth has already slowed, and he expects earnings growth to decelerate from more than 27% year over year, potentially to 15%. He does not expect the Fed to raise rates, but says persistent inflation creates uncertainty that could last into the midterms. On energy, he says inventories have been drawn down, countries are concerned about strategic reserves, and replacing or routing around the Strait of Hormuz would take years. With less global inventory, he argues that disruptions such as a major Gulf hurricane could have more impact than when supply was ample. He also expects countries to hoard energy and forecasts a rotation into energy stocks over the next month, noting that those shares had fallen back despite good earnings.

▶ Inflation outlook and Strait of Hormuz risks

The interviewer says the Iran conflict's duration could determine whether living costs ease or inflation damage becomes harder to reverse, and asks whether inflation could repeat a double peak or reach 8–9% in the United States. Visser says that outcome is possible but not his expectation. He contrasts the current period with 2021–22, when wage pressure was high; he says current wage pressure is at its lowest point and people are cutting expenditures. He cites ECRI's long-leading inflation signal and AI-related shortages as reasons inflation could rise again, while arguing that weak consumption and other unhealthy parts of the economy make a deep recession unlikely in his view. He clarifies that he sees the Strait's control as a strategic issue even without ongoing bombing. If it remains closed, he says supplies will run down and demand management may become demand destruction. He notes countries have used inventories, renegotiated supply, and pipelines, but says inventories are still draining and he sees little chance of a full reopening in the near term. His expectation is higher inflation, though not necessarily a return to prior peaks.

▶ AI compute demand meets supply constraints

The interviewer adds AI's energy needs and data-center compute purchases to the supply-side energy risks, citing Jensen Huang's statement that energy needs could be 1,000 times larger and an Anthropic CFO's account of daily decisions about compute purchases. Visser says the key AI inflection was the move to agentic inference, which sharply accelerated demand. He interprets the 1,000-times comment as referring to compute needs measured through energy and chips, and says efficiency gains in Blackwell and Vera Rubin chips can produce more tokens for the same or less power. But the chips still need power and data centers in which to operate. He worries that regulatory and infrastructure bottlenecks could limit deployment and that hyperscalers may have over-ordered semiconductors without enough data-center capacity to install them. He describes the resulting risk as a possible second-half-of-the-year window in which excess orders and bottlenecks become visible, while saying AI progress itself will continue. He contrasts this with a traditional manufacturing credit cycle and describes the newer pattern as bottlenecks and shortages that can produce bubbles, parabolas, and speed crashes.

▶ Data-center opposition and semiconductor valuation risk

After brief sponsor advertisements, the interviewer asks whether local opposition to data centers adds a social and political obstacle to power and component constraints. Visser says it is a real risk already underway, citing concerns about water and emissions and comparing the political obstacles with those that limited nuclear energy, rare-earth processing, and fracking. He expects data centers may move to more permissive states if blocked elsewhere, but says long construction timelines expose projects to multiple political cycles. He also mentions space-based data centers as one proposed way to avoid some local political constraints. He argues these risks and bottlenecks could justify lower semiconductor earnings multiples and could cause a mini recession in the sector over six to twelve months, even though he regards AI's continued importance as established.

▶ Micron sale and Dogecoin as a retail signal

The interviewer turns from semiconductor leadership to Visser's interest in Dogecoin. Visser says he selected Micron as a top stock for 2025 when it was at 86, sold two-thirds of his position earlier, and sold the final third this week. He says the sale was not a rejection of AI or Micron's prospects; he still believes Micron could rise, but judged that after an approximately eightfold increase it was time to look elsewhere. He compares crypto's current lack of momentum with Micron's period below 110 during the first part of the prior year, before its later advance, and says inference changed his estimate of memory demand. He watches Dogecoin because it has no institutional sponsorship and appears technically near a breakout; if it rises, he would read that as evidence retail interest is returning to crypto. He also identifies Bitcoin above 82,000 as a break of its 200-day moving average and Ethereum around 2,400–2,450 as levels that would look like breakouts to him. Visser says negative real yields could worsen, he does not expect the Fed to move rates, and strong S&P earnings could provide a floor even during a sell-off. He recommends being positioned to buy assets after declines and argues higher rates could ultimately benefit gold, silver, copper, and Bitcoin if the government responds by pushing rates down through debasement measures. The interviewer summarizes Dogecoin as a retail-interest gauge, and Visser agrees.

▶ China trip and portfolio positioning

Asked about the U.S.–China trip and speculation around company executives attending, Visser says he saw it mainly as a show of the relationship's importance and an attempt to signal interest in a larger agreement; he says no major result emerged, though he mentions a possible White House visit in September. He suggests markets may have been disappointed by the lack of a positive announcement and compares the relationship to mediation over how to divide shared assets, with the global economy and other countries affected. Asked about portfolio changes beyond Micron, he says the market may have hoped China would intervene regarding Iran or enable more ships through the Strait, but that outcome was unresolved. He expects public messaging to claim the situation is under control if oil and rates rise, and says that when 30-year yields have exceeded 5%, the government has responded; he notes they were then decisively above 5%. He cautions against entering the weekend short if markets close near their lows, and says the unresolved Iran situation and a market that has run out of momentum are the main concerns.

▶ GameStop, digital activism, and tokenization

Visser says he does not think GameStop can acquire eBay for $55 billion and offers the opinion that the proposal may be intended to regain attention and headlines; he explicitly frames this as his cynical interpretation, not a claim about Ryan Cohen's intent. The interviewer proposes that online retail shareholders could create a new form of digital activism, citing OpenDoor's CEO stepping down after pressure from retail users. He suggests social-media campaigns could affect corporate governance and links retail attention to capital flows. Visser says both views can coexist: Cohen may want a deal while also using social media. He then argues that retail investors may play a larger role in wealth distribution over the coming decade. As examples, he says retail investors bought Micron at levels institutions avoided and that his son made and then lost money trading crypto after choosing assets other than Bitcoin without understanding rotations. Visser says he focuses on trades retail can make and move on from as a wave ends. In his view, tokenization could disrupt venture capital and private equity by bringing transparency and liquidity to private markets, which he says would reduce their appeal to institutions that prefer less frequent marking to market. He argues retail may be more able to handle volatility in tokenized markets, prediction markets, and fast-moving technology assets, and sees fiat and crypto converging through AI and AI agents.

▶ Closing outlook and topics to watch

The interviewer agrees with Visser and asks about his upcoming video. Visser says it will examine inflation and his paper on running hot into scarcity: he argues that policies intended to generate earnings and growth also create shortages when capacity has not been built. He expects another phase of regime change in markets, but says whether prices rise or fall will depend on rates. He says the administration does not control oil, fertilizer, naphtha, helium, or other supply conditions, and describes inflation above interest rates as a source of Fed uncertainty, especially with a new and divisive Fed chair coming in. He plans to cover rate dynamics, market sectors, and crypto, including Dogecoin. The hosts close by saying they will speak again the following Saturday.

Full transcript
[0:00] because of what I believe with
[0:01] tokenization, [music] because of what I
[0:03] believe is happening with the network
[0:04] effects, the fact that yesterday the
[0:06] Clarity Act probability [music]
[0:08] skyrocketed up to 73% before the end of
[0:10] the year. I believe we [music] are in a
[0:13] very important point in crypto. We're a
[0:15] year from now. What's going on, guys?
[0:17] Today, we got a great conversation with
[0:19] Jordy Visser. Jordy goes through what's
[0:21] going on in the macro environment, why
[0:22] stocks hitting all-time highs may be a
[0:24] tale of caution, what's going on with
[0:26] interest rates, inflation, where he
[0:28] thinks we go from here. also Bitcoin and
[0:30] Dogecoin. Jordy talks about Dogecoin as
[0:32] a signal for something he's paying
[0:34] attention to. And frankly, it made a lot
[0:36] of sense once he explained it. All that
[0:37] and much more in this conversation with
[0:39] Jordi Visser. All right, Jordy, let's
[0:41] start with the new all-time high in the
[0:43] stock market. It feels like the month of
[0:45] May is the coming out party for the
[0:46] stock market. There's been nine or 10
[0:48] trading days of the month, yet we hit
[0:51] six different new all-time highs
[0:53] already. And so, the momentum has just
[0:55] been getting more momentum. What is
[0:57] driving all of this excitement,
[0:59] enthusiasm, and potentially fraud in the
[1:01] stock market?
[1:03] >> Yeah, we've made new all-time highs, but
[1:05] there's um there's one part of the
[1:07] market that continues to drive it, which
[1:10] is the AI trade. It isn't just semis,
[1:13] but semis are the fuel. Uh that's where
[1:16] the speculation is. And we've been able
[1:20] to uh navigate through everything that's
[1:22] going on with semis driving everything.
[1:25] The the one thing I want to say as as
[1:26] people are watching this and um the
[1:29] stock market's making new all-time
[1:31] highs, but you hear these, you know,
[1:33] these comments over time that it's doing
[1:35] it without a lot of breath. It's very
[1:37] concentrated. Uh and that's one of the
[1:40] the situations that we're we've been in
[1:42] over the course of the last couple
[1:44] weeks. We're actually seeing a lot of 52
[1:48] week new lows. um as many and in some
[1:52] days more than 52- week new highs. Now
[1:56] 52- week new highs and lows are just
[1:59] over the last year. So when you say
[2:01] all-time highs, we actually have a lot
[2:03] of names that are making new lows. Um we
[2:06] only have just above or right around 50%
[2:09] of the stocks above their 200 day moving
[2:11] average. That's a one-year moving
[2:12] average effectively or close to it. So
[2:15] this is not a broad rally. And whenever
[2:17] this happens, that means there's a
[2:19] struggle going on. The things that are
[2:21] near the 52- week lows are remain
[2:25] software, which is still being disrupted
[2:26] by AI. It's not all software, but a lot
[2:29] of software companies. Uh, and then you
[2:31] also have everything related to the
[2:33] consumer. So, you've got McDonald's
[2:36] close to 52- week high lows. You have uh
[2:39] Nike near 52- week lows. You have I can
[2:42] go through like a list of these
[2:43] whirlpool on the housing side.
[2:46] Everything on the consumer side has been
[2:48] an issue. Now, historically, when
[2:50] consumer stocks are going down, that
[2:53] means inside the market, we're starting
[2:55] to say the economy is going to weaken.
[2:56] And again, that's on the back of rates
[2:58] moving higher and oil moving higher. And
[3:00] we have a very exhausted situation. And
[3:03] I mentioned this last week and I did for
[3:05] my subscribers uh a Tuesday video just
[3:08] saying we're not only exhausted which
[3:10] means the market has on the
[3:13] semiconductors has reached an all-time
[3:15] high but it is so stretched relative to
[3:19] every metric you can. It's kind of like
[3:22] going a year without rain in California
[3:25] and being in one of those hills where
[3:26] all it takes is a match and all of a
[3:28] sudden things go. And this week we
[3:29] started to see a lot of signs that uh
[3:32] semiconductors are at risk uh especially
[3:35] memory prices. And my gut tells me
[3:38] because I've been waiting for this
[3:40] inflation regime uh that we're in it
[3:42] now. Uh a lot of people didn't buy into
[3:45] it or they kind of became you know not
[3:48] caring about it. But I think Iran is now
[3:50] starting to have an impact. And I find
[3:52] it highly unlikely unless oil were to
[3:54] collapse, which is not going to happen,
[3:56] that the consumer names are going to get
[3:58] a reprieve from either lower rates cuz
[4:00] we have now hikes being built in. Oil
[4:02] prices are not coming down anytime soon
[4:05] in a meaningful way. Uh and then we have
[4:07] the back end of the year which people
[4:09] are going to have to deal with food
[4:10] prices and we got bad news on the food
[4:12] situation this week with a horrible
[4:14] report on kind of the spring season
[4:16] already uh in terms of the crop report.
[4:20] We're going to have higher food prices
[4:21] in the second half of the year. So I
[4:22] think the market is digesting and right
[4:24] now the overbought exhausted things uh
[4:27] look like they're losing the fight right
[4:28] now. Now, Scott Besson, the Treasury
[4:31] Secretary, when he was in China, he gave
[4:33] an interview to CNBC and he says that uh
[4:35] once the Iran wars ended, he thinks that
[4:37] energy and oil prices will come down and
[4:39] therefore inflation will subside. Uh
[4:42] dare I say, he was hinting at the idea
[4:44] that inflation will be transitory,
[4:45] although he did not use those terms. Um,
[4:48] do you think it is possible that energy
[4:51] prices could come down and inflation
[4:53] will come down or is there such a
[4:55] structural change both in the energy
[4:57] market and then therefore the the flow
[4:58] through to consumer inflation that your
[5:02] base case is that kind of higher level
[5:03] of equilibrium and we should brace for
[5:05] this to be like a two plus year uh
[5:07] exercise similar to the last time that
[5:09] inflation flared up.
[5:11] Well, first of all, um Scott Besson is
[5:14] talking his book, obviously. Um this is
[5:16] a major bet that they've made. The
[5:20] midterms are coming up. So, they want
[5:22] this to go down, but when you um start a
[5:25] conflict and you've got a chokeold place
[5:28] like the Straight of Hormuz, you don't
[5:30] get to choose when it ends. Um that is a
[5:33] negotiation. And uh anyone who's been in
[5:36] any kind of negotiation, there's two
[5:38] sides to a negotiation. and making oil
[5:41] go back down is not something that they
[5:43] have complete control over. Um, on the
[5:46] second point, see this is the problem
[5:48] with inflation and this is why, you
[5:50] know, I I spoke out against true
[5:52] inflation. I spoke out against it.
[5:55] Your view on inflation and what's gone
[5:57] down. We just saw a CPI coming in at 6
[5:59] last month was 0.9. It's down. That
[6:02] doesn't matter. What matters is where is
[6:04] headline inflation relative to what
[6:07] people expected. People did not expect
[6:09] inflation to go higher in the market.
[6:11] You cannot buy stocks at at without any
[6:14] risk and believe that if inflation goes
[6:17] higher and rates go higher that it's not
[6:18] going to have an impact on the market.
[6:19] That's just not true. If inflation does
[6:21] go higher than expected and that's
[6:23] what's starting to happen. We not only
[6:24] have the CPI this month uh this week, we
[6:27] had PPI which surprised on the upside,
[6:30] but most importantly we had the import
[6:32] price inflation which was really the
[6:34] leading part of this. This started
[6:35] before the war. A lot of the inflation
[6:37] data started before the war. So I live
[6:39] in a world of facts. I don't live in in
[6:41] jawbon and you know backtesting models
[6:44] to to look at things. I'm listening to
[6:47] investors and I'm going through what the
[6:49] surprise would be. And I'm looking at
[6:50] the charts. The rates charts are kind of
[6:52] scary. Um part of the reason that I said
[6:55] we're going into a regime shift is
[6:56] because we now have threemon bills
[6:59] sitting at 369 and year-over-year
[7:01] inflation currently is 3.8. That number
[7:03] is going higher. And even if we get a
[7:05] 0.5 number next month in the month
[7:07] overmonth number, if we keep putting in
[7:10] 0.5s, 0.5s over the course of 12 months
[7:12] get you above 6%. And that's
[7:15] year-over-year. So you have to be
[7:17] careful of inflation about a what
[7:19] they're saying and secondly what's going
[7:20] to happen. There was a Supreme Court
[7:22] ruling yesterday on the trucking
[7:25] industry. Uh I'm going to go through
[7:27] this over the weekend. This is really
[7:29] important because this is something that
[7:30] had started in the courts with the Biden
[7:32] administration. Uh, and you had a
[7:34] unanimous decision in the courts. When's
[7:36] the last time we had a unanimous
[7:38] decision in the Supreme Court? And this
[7:40] was about effectively trucking
[7:42] companies, the brokers, needing to make
[7:45] sure that who they're directing business
[7:48] to that
[7:50] they're liable for if people don't have
[7:52] insurance or if people So, it really
[7:54] kind of gets into the underground market
[7:56] of trucking, which is going to limit
[7:58] capacity. The reason I'm bringing up
[7:59] this up is we have diesel prices through
[8:01] the roof. Now you're going to have less
[8:02] capacity in trucks. This country runs on
[8:05] the trucking side and rates are already
[8:07] going higher. This is why anyone arguing
[8:09] that inflation is not going higher. I
[8:12] just don't find it credible that you can
[8:13] ignore semiconductors. You can ignore
[8:15] memory prices, CPUs, bottlenecks in
[8:18] transformers, gas turbines. We have a
[8:20] bottleneck supply shortage situation
[8:23] which is coming because the
[8:24] administration decided last year they
[8:26] wanted to run this thing hot. This is
[8:28] all part of debasement. If we have
[8:31] inflation running higher, that means
[8:33] nominal GDP runs higher than interest
[8:35] rates. Well, that's how you get out of a
[8:37] debt problem. That's one of the ways
[8:38] that you do it. And I think that's the
[8:40] attempt. The issue is going to be now
[8:42] that rates are pushing higher, we start
[8:44] to worry about the debt again because
[8:45] interest expense is now $1.2 trillion a
[8:48] year on the expense side. Even with
[8:51] rates at these levels, they're not in a
[8:52] position to be able to raise rates. And
[8:54] even if they were, how much are they
[8:55] going to raise them? Is that going to
[8:56] stop inflation? No. because I do agree
[8:59] it's transitory just like the last one
[9:01] was transitory. The question is how long
[9:03] is transitory and if we go another six
[9:06] months of year-over-year CPI going
[9:08] higher. I think in that environment the
[9:11] market's going to have trouble. It's
[9:12] going to be pressing on the rate
[9:13] situation. And just remember the worst
[9:15] of last year post liberation day was
[9:19] when we had stocks, bonds and the dollar
[9:22] going down. I think people have to start
[9:24] worrying that maybe again we haven't had
[9:27] a correction now again in since we've
[9:29] had this massive rally. I think for
[9:31] semiconductors we're going to start to
[9:33] see some issues pop up uh where going to
[9:36] have to have some profit taking and then
[9:38] on the flip side I just think we're
[9:39] going to be dealing with inflation for
[9:41] longer than people think. Now what I
[9:43] find very interesting is if you look at
[9:44] the true inflation uh chart forget for a
[9:47] second the number just the direction of
[9:48] travel uh into the beginning of this
[9:51] year there was a significant draw down I
[9:53] think we saw that then in the CPI metric
[9:55] as well there was this draw down um we
[9:57] also to your point uh saw the stock
[9:59] market a couple of weeks after that draw
[10:01] down so you kind of had everything
[10:03] saying hey there is liquidity there is
[10:05] inflation coming down there is this
[10:07] headwind of kind of deflationary forces
[10:10] I think that now what we have seen is we
[10:12] saw through inflation literally like a
[10:14] V-shaped recovery in the inflation uh
[10:17] data. CPI 100% is going higher and and
[10:20] has gone higher. Um and then you have
[10:22] the stock market which has rallied you
[10:24] know very aggressively off the bottom.
[10:26] Uh probably the second best recovery in
[10:28] you know 70 years or so. I think one of
[10:31] the aspects that becomes very
[10:33] interesting is most people especially in
[10:36] the Bitcoin world would say higher
[10:38] inflation means that inflation both hits
[10:41] the consumer but it pushes asset prices
[10:44] up as well. Now I think if I go and I
[10:46] talk to people on Wall Street what they
[10:48] will say is some version of yes that's
[10:50] true but markets are forward-looking and
[10:53] if inflation goes higher and asset
[10:55] prices get ahead of themselves that
[10:56] means the Fed is going to be forced to
[10:58] raise rates which then means there's a
[10:59] headwind and so they're maybe a little
[11:01] bit more cautious about responding to
[11:03] that higher inflation and potential
[11:05] asset appreciation. How do you look at
[11:07] that balance? because we know inflation
[11:08] does drive asset prices, but I think
[11:10] that what you're talking about here is
[11:12] like, but if we get that, then the Fed
[11:14] will have to cut or excuse me, raise
[11:15] rates and that could be actually a
[11:16] headwind for asset prices.
[11:20] >> There's one part of the puzzle that's
[11:22] missing, which is rates. Um, and the
[11:24] debt.
[11:25] There is not a single time since the
[11:28] overprinting during COVID that when
[11:31] rates went higher, it wasn't bad for the
[11:33] market. At some point you reach a level
[11:35] where it starts to get bad for the
[11:37] market. And the reason is the interest
[11:39] expense starts going higher and the
[11:41] market starts going through the debt
[11:43] fears again. Remember markets are all
[11:46] about expectations and they're about
[11:47] earnings and they're about the earnings
[11:49] are great. We just had a a great
[11:51] earnings quarter. My best guess here is
[11:54] a lot of that was the front loing of the
[11:57] purchases of memory and semiconductor
[11:59] chips. Uh, you know, I'll be
[12:02] highlighting this weekend that the
[12:03] second derivative of memory has already
[12:05] shifted. We're not going up as fast in
[12:07] price as we were, which means they're
[12:10] going to have to do more volume. And
[12:12] this is where nominal GDP becomes
[12:14] important for people on earnings. I
[12:17] think you're going to see a sharp
[12:18] deceleration in the earnings growth,
[12:20] which shouldn't be a surprise. We just
[12:21] came in at 27 plus% year-over-year. So
[12:24] going down to even 15, it's a big drop
[12:27] off. When the market has had a big run
[12:30] and it's only a small portion of the
[12:32] market, it makes sense for things to
[12:33] kind of drift lower. But I do think
[12:36] people have to remember that when you
[12:37] have inflation moving higher and you
[12:39] have rates moving higher, you're in a
[12:41] different macro regime. And the question
[12:43] is, will the Fed raise rates? Now, I
[12:46] don't think they will, but every day
[12:48] that an inflation print goes higher,
[12:50] every day that you're feeling it, then
[12:52] this becomes an issue. Do we raise rates
[12:55] or do we not? And I think that
[12:56] uncertainty is what the market is going
[12:58] to be grappling with. And this will
[13:00] probably last, and I hate to say this,
[13:02] all the way into the midterms. Uh, at
[13:04] some point here, we were probably going
[13:06] to have uncertainty
[13:08] because people were hoping that Iran
[13:11] would just be over and the straight
[13:13] would open. Well, that's not happened.
[13:14] And we have gone through inventories
[13:16] very very fast. And I want to make sure
[13:19] people know as someone who um doesn't
[13:21] believe that the doomers about oil uh
[13:26] should be listened to from the extent of
[13:28] the world's going to collapse like co.
[13:30] It's not co but what they are absolutely
[13:32] right about is that two things are going
[13:35] to come out of this. Number one, any
[13:37] country in the world is worried about
[13:39] their inventory and their strategic
[13:41] petroleum reserve because Iran is not
[13:44] going away. So this stroke, this
[13:47] chokeold point, it matters. And whatever
[13:50] we're going to do to get around it,
[13:51] building new pipelines, moving stuff
[13:53] other places, that's going to take
[13:54] years. And so what you're left with is a
[13:56] scenario that it's not expected to be a
[13:59] big hurricane season, but let's assume a
[14:01] Katrina goes through the Gulf of Mexico.
[14:02] Well, then you're going to have supply
[14:04] disruptions that last for a period of
[14:06] time. We don't have the inventories
[14:08] anymore the way we did around the globe.
[14:09] So any point of the world that ends up
[14:12] having an oil or gas problem, it's going
[14:13] to matter 10 times as much as it did
[14:15] last year when we had excess supply. So
[14:18] you've got that issue that is going to
[14:20] be around now for the better part. And
[14:22] the other one is again, you're going to
[14:23] see every country hoarding. So I think
[14:25] people are underestimating how long
[14:28] energy prices are going to sit here. And
[14:30] if there's one part of the market at
[14:32] this stage that should benefit from the
[14:34] higher inflation situation, it is going
[14:36] to be energy stocks because they
[14:37] initially went higher with Iran. Believe
[14:40] it or not, they fell off and they've
[14:42] kind of not moved despite good earnings.
[14:44] But I think you're going to see a
[14:45] rotation into energy stocks now over the
[14:47] course of the next month.
[14:49] >> I um I think that we are at the uh uh
[14:52] the demarcation line, if you will. If
[14:55] the Iran war is not over in the next
[14:57] week or so, I think that there is
[14:59] serious risk of the midterms. I think
[15:01] cost of living will not come down. Like
[15:03] this is, you know, when you talk about
[15:04] if you go back and watch maybe the tapes
[15:06] of us talking back in February and into
[15:09] March, I think that we both were
[15:11] highlighting, look, if this is like a
[15:13] twoe exercise, that's a very different
[15:15] thing than if this is a prolonged
[15:17] monthsl long, you know, uh, kind of
[15:18] situation.
[15:20] The problem with saying prolonged is
[15:22] it's kind of you know it's a there's no
[15:24] technical definition. So it could be you
[15:25] know what are we talking about? We
[15:26] talking about a couple weeks a couple
[15:27] months you know a couple years whatever.
[15:29] It just feels like now is the point
[15:32] where if it is not over I mean
[15:34] immediately
[15:35] the damage is going to be done right
[15:37] there's not it's not going to be easy to
[15:38] get inflation back down etc. And so that
[15:40] begs the question, um I'm sure you've
[15:42] seen the charts of uh you know what is
[15:44] the 80s where inflation peaks, it comes
[15:47] crashing down and you almost get like a
[15:48] double top.
[15:49] >> Is that your general thought process is
[15:51] that we get a repeat of that kind of
[15:53] double top and we could see inflation go
[15:56] as high as you know 8 9% in America.
[15:59] >> Is it possible? Yes. Do I think it'll
[16:01] happen? No. Um remember in the first
[16:04] inflation wave it it it was everything.
[16:06] So it was uh it was core inflation as
[16:10] well. The differences this time and the
[16:12] reason I I don't expect it to be that
[16:13] way and the reason well let me start
[16:15] with the reason why not um we also got
[16:18] numbers on wage pressure this week and
[16:20] wage pressure is at the lowest point
[16:22] back in 2021 and 2022 wage pressure was
[16:26] at the highest point. I mean, I wrote in
[16:29] my paper this week on running hot into
[16:31] scarcity that I mean, it was tough to
[16:35] get people back from yoloing. Like, this
[16:37] is a completely different world and
[16:39] wages matter a lot because that's what
[16:41] people can pay with. So, we're just
[16:43] we're seeing expenditures get cut. And
[16:45] this is why the stock market, you know,
[16:46] I talk about it all the time. Um, ECRI,
[16:50] which is a a very um important uh group
[16:53] in my life. When I was in Brazil, I
[16:56] started to study uh economic cycle and
[16:58] ECRI stands for economic cycle research
[17:01] institute. They do phenomenal work and
[17:03] they recently um came out and said that
[17:06] they have a longleading inflation signal
[17:08] and that says to me we could get back up
[17:11] especially with the AI shortages that
[17:12] are happening. I just don't think people
[17:15] fully grasp how important oil is across
[17:18] prochemicals and like how many things it
[17:20] just impacts our life. you're going to
[17:22] have elevated inflation but for services
[17:25] and for a lot of things related to the
[17:27] economy we have a good portion of the
[17:29] economy which is not healthy and so when
[17:31] you look at the stock market and the way
[17:33] I replaced ECRI from the way they do um
[17:36] economic data points is I used assets so
[17:39] when I say breath is bad and I tell you
[17:41] the housing stuff is horrible and the
[17:43] consumer uh restaurant stuff is horrible
[17:45] and I go through all of these different
[17:47] things the stock market is telling you
[17:49] the economy is not rate in a very very
[17:52] important part which is consumption.
[17:55] It's not going to go to a recession but
[17:57] I think it says to your point with the
[17:58] midterms that this is going to be an
[18:00] issue. Now you made a comment and I just
[18:02] want to make people uh realize this.
[18:07] You said if the war ends we haven't had
[18:09] bombing there's no war right now. This
[18:12] is actually something much much worse.
[18:14] This is a strategic game of controlling
[18:18] a straight which is responsible for a
[18:21] very high percentage of all the world's
[18:23] oil. And if it never resumes again,
[18:26] we'll start running out of stuff, guys.
[18:27] Like that's plain and simple. That's why
[18:29] the doomers have basically talked about
[18:31] how bad this situation is. They are 100%
[18:34] right that if this extends and keeps
[18:36] going, you have to have demand
[18:38] destruction. Now, as of now, I'm sure
[18:40] there's been demand managing as opposed
[18:43] to destruction. The managing being
[18:45] countries can see it. I make jokes about
[18:47] this, but on X, you can go watch the
[18:50] boats not go through the straight like
[18:51] it's a video game. So, you couldn't do
[18:54] this 20 years ago or especially not
[18:55] during the 1970s. So, I think countries
[18:58] have prepared as best they can. They
[19:00] used up inventories. They've they've
[19:02] renegotiated where they're getting
[19:04] stuff. We've used pipelines we probably
[19:06] weren't using to full capacity, but
[19:08] we're still draining inventories and
[19:09] those data points are showing up. So, I
[19:12] think you're right. If this doesn't get
[19:14] um if we don't get the straight reopen,
[19:15] forget the war. If the straight isn't
[19:17] completely reopened, which I see very
[19:19] little chance of happening in the near
[19:20] term, uh you're left with a situation
[19:23] that I think people should expect higher
[19:24] inflation. I don't think it's going back
[19:26] up to the peaks that we were, but it
[19:29] doesn't take much to make that happen.
[19:31] So, I want to um maybe expand our view
[19:34] of the energy market. Uh obviously, the
[19:37] straight is very important as you're
[19:38] highlighting, but there's other chess
[19:40] pieces on the board that are all being
[19:42] moved at the same time. And I think on
[19:43] one hand, this is intellectually
[19:44] stimulating for a lot of people thinking
[19:45] about this. Uh but it's very difficult
[19:47] to navigate for investors and for uh
[19:50] operators. And so the other two maybe
[19:52] chess pieces that I want to introduce to
[19:54] this conversation is Jensen Hang uh this
[19:57] past week said that he believes that the
[19:59] energy needs are 1,000x
[20:03] larger than what we currently have. He
[20:05] didn't say 10, he didn't say 100, he
[20:07] said a thousand. He doesn't usually
[20:09] strike me as somebody who is overly
[20:10] bombastic. So he says a thousand and
[20:12] it's really like 50. He tends to be, you
[20:14] know, he kind of says what he thinks.
[20:16] And so a 1000x is a very large number.
[20:19] the same time um we heard for the first
[20:22] time the anthropic CFO uh he went on
[20:25] Patrick Oshanaugh's invest like the best
[20:27] podcast and one he should do all the
[20:29] talking for anthropic going forward I
[20:31] think he was very articulate and very
[20:33] impressive um but two was he talked
[20:36] about this like cone of uncertainty and
[20:38] how if they buy too much compute and you
[20:41] know by proxy energy then they are dead
[20:44] and if they don't buy enough you know
[20:46] that's also bad and so it's basically
[20:48] this like moving Target and they talked
[20:50] about how every single day they were
[20:52] having a daily meeting about their
[20:54] compute purchases and energy and and all
[20:56] this stuff. And so the reason why I
[20:58] introduced those two chess pieces is
[20:59] like on one side you have supply being
[21:02] constricted at the exact same moment
[21:05] that you have demand exploding
[21:08] for all the AI energy needs etc. And so
[21:11] it almost takes what you were saying
[21:12] before and like supercharges it now when
[21:14] you realize it's not just one side of
[21:15] the equation. It's actually both supply
[21:17] and demand that are being affected.
[21:19] >> Well, th this is what I've I show almost
[21:22] every week is the inflection point was
[21:24] November of last year when inference
[21:26] officially started as an agentic side.
[21:29] So once Opus 4.5 came into existence.
[21:33] I mean I'm down in in in Fort Lauderdale
[21:36] and I gave a speech on stage and that
[21:40] there was there was a geopolitical
[21:42] person. Um, in fact, I don't I don't
[21:45] know if you can get him on. I don't if
[21:46] he seems kind of expensive. Maybe you've
[21:48] had him on. Uh, John Citiles. Uh, he was
[21:52] fantastic. Um, fantastic. But he gave
[21:55] this long, let's say, 50inute
[21:58] presentation,
[22:00] which had my attention the entire time.
[22:02] When someone with ADHD, that means
[22:03] you're doing a phenomenal job. My my
[22:05] limit's about 15 minutes. So, he went 50
[22:07] and I was I was engaged the entire time.
[22:10] I'm just laughing that you said he
[22:12] seemed expensive. I need you to tell me
[22:14] later what that entails. How can I seem
[22:16] expensive? [laughter]
[22:17] >> I I I I He seemed for his for his
[22:20] services, his speakings. He was great
[22:23] though. He what he did is he said this
[22:25] is the most important geomac point in 30
[22:28] years. And he was obviously relating
[22:30] going back to um Russia and kind of
[22:34] going through the cold war and where we
[22:36] ended up in in the '9s, the early '9s.
[22:39] It matches up with my presentation where
[22:42] I say this is the most important
[22:44] inflection point not chat GPT release
[22:46] guys that was the democratization of AI
[22:49] but we had already had artificial
[22:50] intelligence this is just when we all
[22:52] got it the major point was when AI
[22:55] agents started to enter our lives when
[22:57] we actually be able to have action
[22:59] that's when co-work started that's
[23:01] really when code started to become
[23:02] something that you could use and
[23:04] everyone said now I'm using all of my
[23:06] code on this so that's when demand
[23:08] started to accelerate dramatically.
[23:10] Nvidia did a deal with Gro at the end of
[23:12] the year because it's like, "Oh my god,
[23:13] this is no longer about data centers.
[23:15] This is about inference and we're not
[23:17] ready for this because you can't do this
[23:18] with GPUs. You actually need east west
[23:20] traffic." Oh my gosh. And so that's what
[23:22] he's talking about. I believe he he said
[23:25] a thousand times compute. And if he
[23:27] didn't say compute, he said energy. He
[23:29] meant compute. And the reason is compute
[23:31] is just broken down into two components.
[23:33] It's energy and chips. So he's saying we
[23:35] need more tokens per watt. So the token
[23:39] needs have gone through the roof which
[23:40] means the watt needs have gone through
[23:42] the roof. And that's how you go from his
[23:44] comment of tokens per watt. Now we've
[23:46] had efficiency gains which allow us to
[23:49] deal with this with Blackwell which is
[23:51] more efficient and then Vera Rubin which
[23:52] is more efficient and then he's already
[23:54] working on the next gen to come out
[23:56] after that which is more efficient. So
[23:58] that means with these current setups,
[23:59] you actually get more efficiency for
[24:02] less power or the same amount of power,
[24:05] you get more tokens. So we're in that
[24:07] situation right now where demand is
[24:09] exploding. At the same time, the supply
[24:11] side is being met to some degree by the
[24:13] efficiency in the chips, but the only
[24:15] way that works. The Blackwells in Vera
[24:17] Rubin are very efficient, but they need
[24:19] to be plugged in. And this is my fear
[24:21] for the second half of the year is that
[24:22] all the bottlenecks we're seeing, all
[24:24] the regulatory pressures on the data
[24:26] centers, we're actually not going to get
[24:29] enough, not to have the AI progress
[24:31] continue, guys, cuz that's going to
[24:33] happen. But I think we're probably over
[24:36] orderering stuff right now. And this is
[24:38] why when I talk about the difference
[24:40] between a business credit cycle in the
[24:42] traditional fiat world where it's
[24:44] manufacturing for consumers where we
[24:46] don't have information between the two
[24:47] groups and you get out of balance and
[24:49] then the Fed needs to come in during a
[24:50] recession, we fire people blah blah
[24:52] blah. This this new world which I termed
[24:56] uh bubbles, parabas,
[24:58] and speed crashes, it's about
[25:00] bottlenecks and shortages. And I think
[25:02] we've overpurchased a lot of
[25:04] semiconductors because we wanted to make
[25:07] sure we were ahead of people. We didn't
[25:09] know what they were buying. So we bought
[25:10] everything. When I say we, the
[25:12] hyperscalers, they're just ordering and
[25:14] buying everything. The problem is if you
[25:16] don't have a place to plug them in, they
[25:17] just sit in your garage until you
[25:19] actually have the data centers built.
[25:20] And I think we're going to be in a
[25:22] window here that will we'll show that at
[25:24] some point in the second half of the
[25:26] year. Today's episode is brought to you
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[27:39] sent you. How does all the um anti- data
[27:44] center movement, the protests, the uh
[27:47] these videos we keep seeing of people
[27:49] yelling and screaming at local community
[27:50] meetings. Um it seems like everyone
[27:54] wants the output of data centers. They
[27:57] want more videos and content and
[27:59] products and software and like all of
[28:01] that. Nobody is saying, "Hey, we want
[28:03] less of that." But there are a growing
[28:05] number of people saying I just don't
[28:06] want the data center in my local
[28:08] community or in my backyard or you know
[28:10] down the street from my house. And so do
[28:13] you expect that to also be a headwind
[28:15] outside of just the actual like
[28:16] components and and power shortages etc.
[28:19] But there's like a social component that
[28:20] investors need to underwrite as well
[28:23] >> of course but this gets back into
[28:25] politics. Um, the same way I talked
[28:27] about Scott Besson is basically talking
[28:30] his book, um, and what he wants to have
[28:32] happen with energy, politicians in these
[28:35] communities are trying to stop data
[28:37] centers. Um, and
[28:40] if you just tell people that you don't
[28:42] know what's going to happen to your
[28:43] water, I don't think anything will scare
[28:45] people faster than you know what's going
[28:46] to happen to your water. They care about
[28:48] their kids. the water usage this uses
[28:50] the the the fumes this goes through the
[28:53] this is what stopped nuclear in the
[28:55] country. So do I think it's a risk?
[28:57] Absolutely it's a risk and I think it's
[28:58] already happening. But this goes back to
[29:01] what's been happening in the country. I
[29:02] mean I'm down in Fort Lauderdale and I'm
[29:04] reading stories about how buildings that
[29:06] aren't even built now are getting demand
[29:08] from everyone from New York who wants to
[29:11] fly down because of the taxes that are
[29:12] going to happen in the city. So the same
[29:15] thing will happen with the data centers.
[29:16] if they can't be built in the north,
[29:18] they'll be built in the south or in in
[29:19] states where they're like, "Okay, you
[29:21] can do it here." The reason we have a
[29:23] rare earth problem with China is because
[29:25] the United States didn't want to have
[29:26] anything to do with rare earth because
[29:28] it is a toxic mineral. It's bad for the
[29:30] environment and China said, "We'll do it
[29:32] because that's their way of kind of
[29:34] dealing with oil." We've had the same
[29:35] thing with fracking. So, anyone who
[29:37] doesn't realize that this is going to be
[29:39] an issue, it already is an issue. It
[29:41] will remain an issue. And this is why
[29:43] Elon Musk, I mean, it's one of the
[29:44] reasons why he wants to do this in
[29:46] space. It's not just because of some of
[29:47] the benefits of having the sun all the
[29:50] time, having automatic cooling is
[29:52] because he thinks you could start a
[29:54] project in a state and it could be shut
[29:56] off because a politician takes over and
[29:58] decides that this isn't going to happen.
[29:59] So, I think these issues are going to be
[30:02] there. The problem with data centers is
[30:04] they take such a long time to build
[30:06] which means you're getting through
[30:08] multiple
[30:09] cycles of politics and politics in a
[30:12] democracy just make it very hard to do
[30:13] anything. So I think this is going to be
[30:15] an issue. It's it's it's a main reason
[30:17] why I think people are making a mistake
[30:20] to not look at semiconductors and just
[30:22] realize one of the reasons that they're
[30:25] going to have to trade at a lower
[30:26] multiple to earnings is because these
[30:28] bottlenecks and these risks are real and
[30:31] it won't be a cyclical stock anymore
[30:33] because AI is a given but over the
[30:36] course of say 6 to 12 months it
[30:38] absolutely could run into a mini
[30:40] recession due to bottlenecks and
[30:42] shortages.
[30:44] Now when we look at um the stock market,
[30:47] I think that you're very uh accurate in
[30:49] saying look there's a lot of carnage
[30:51] actually and there's one sector that's
[30:52] driving everything. Um you can look
[30:54] again the Roundill ETF. I think it's now
[30:56] over 10 billion in the DRAM um ETF. So
[31:00] obviously people want exposure to this
[31:01] stuff. Um but in crypto you texted me a
[31:05] very interesting idea. Usually we talk
[31:07] about Bitcoin and you mentioned Dogecoin
[31:10] and I got to say I, you know, I took off
[31:12] my uh hypothetical glasses and I kind of
[31:14] cleared my eyes again to make sure I was
[31:16] actually reading correctly what you
[31:18] said, but you told me that you were
[31:20] looking at the Dogecoin chart. You don't
[31:22] strike me as a Dogecoin maximalist. So,
[31:25] what uh what's going on with Dogecoin in
[31:27] your mind?
[31:28] >> All right. So, we've been doing this for
[31:30] over a year, and I know there's a lot of
[31:31] people that um both watch slash listen
[31:35] to us, but also watch me on the
[31:38] weekends.
[31:41] >> You're popular. You're popular guy.
[31:43] Good-looking, smart. We get it.
[31:45] [laughter]
[31:46] >> You're ridiculous. I love data. But what
[31:49] I the data I love the most is the data
[31:52] that I can attach
[31:54] a signal to. So, um, here's my overall
[31:59] belief, and I said this on stage this
[32:01] week. Uh, we talked about Micron
[32:05] Technology
[32:06] last year. Um, uh, Phil Rosen, uh, your
[32:11] guy, uh, reposted something very nicely
[32:14] about me and said that in my stock
[32:17] selection for his piece last year for
[32:19] the best stocks for 2025, mine was
[32:21] Micron, and I did that when it was 86.
[32:26] I mentioned last week that I sold out of
[32:28] two/3 of my micron. Well, I got rid of
[32:30] the last third this week because
[32:34] >> but here's the thing. It has nothing to
[32:36] do with my belief in AI and my belief
[32:38] that Micron's going higher. I do believe
[32:39] it's going higher. And as I said last
[32:41] week at 6:30 when I made the 23 sell,
[32:47] did I think it was going to double from
[32:48] there over the next year? No. at eight
[32:51] something. I was like, "Well, now I'm
[32:53] I'm I'm not I'm not I'm not looking at
[32:56] this anymore." It had already gone up
[32:58] eight times from where it was a year and
[33:00] change ago. If you're lucky to get an
[33:02] eight bagger in crypto, you're happy.
[33:03] Well, this was in a public stock. So, to
[33:06] me, it was like, go find something else.
[33:08] Now, what I told these people on stage
[33:10] was because of what I believe with
[33:12] tokenization, because of what I believe
[33:14] is happening with the network effects.
[33:16] the fact that yesterday the clarity act
[33:18] probability skyrocketed up to 73% before
[33:21] the end of the year. I believe we are in
[33:24] a very important point in crypto where a
[33:27] year from now the same problem that
[33:30] these institutional investors are having
[33:31] with semiconductors which is how do we
[33:33] buy something that's gone up eight times
[33:35] from where it was even though the
[33:37] earnings are good I can't do this even
[33:38] if it's cheap crypto is going to move
[33:41] away fast at some point too and Micron
[33:44] stayed below and everyone can go look at
[33:46] this it stayed below 110
[33:49] repeatedly for the entire first part of
[33:52] last year in the same way that crypto
[33:53] has. It didn't have the energy to push
[33:56] through and I couldn't figure it out
[33:58] because as someone who was absorbed with
[33:59] AI, I knew we weren't going to have
[34:01] enough memory. That was clear. I didn't
[34:04] think it would get to the situation it
[34:06] did in with inference. But that first
[34:09] move from 100 to 250, that's absolutely
[34:12] what I thought and that's what I wrote
[34:13] about. I thought it would double. Well,
[34:16] when inference came out and I realized
[34:18] how much more memory was needed, that
[34:20] changed the equation. I think a year
[34:21] from now people will be looking at
[34:23] crypto in the same way. They're not
[34:25] paying attention to it right now because
[34:27] it's not moving. So this is where
[34:28] Dogecoin fits in. Dogecoin to me has no
[34:31] institutional sponsorship. It has zero
[34:35] associated with what I'm doing. And
[34:37] that's why me not looking at it is
[34:39] important. The reason I started looking
[34:40] at it is technically it looks close to a
[34:44] breakout. At the same time, Bitcoin up
[34:46] near the 200 day moving average looks
[34:48] like a breakout. Ethereum around 2400 to
[34:51] 2450 to me would look like a breakout.
[34:54] But Dogecoin to me, if it can break out
[34:56] and actually run, that would mean that
[34:59] retail is starting to get interested. We
[35:01] talked about how retail was focused on
[35:02] AI. Well, guess what? If I'm right about
[35:05] memory, that whole DRAM thing right now,
[35:07] it's done. It's not that it won't be
[35:10] back in a year or maybe two years, but
[35:12] it's already had a huge run. Micron has
[35:14] outperformed every Mag 7 dramatically
[35:17] since 2018. dramatically. Forget the
[35:20] last year. Dramatically. So, I think
[35:22] we're at a point where you have to watch
[35:24] things like Dogecoin. You have to watch
[35:25] things like Bitcoin. If Bitcoin gets
[35:27] above that 82,000 level, it will have
[35:29] broken the 200 day moving average. And
[35:30] I'll end it on this. I said the most
[35:32] important thing was the regime shift
[35:34] this week. We have negative real yields
[35:37] and I think they're only going to get
[35:38] worse. And I don't think the Fed is
[35:40] going to move rates. And I think
[35:42] earnings in the S&P are still going to
[35:43] be good, which means there will be a
[35:45] floor to the stock market. Even if we
[35:46] get a sell-off, you want to be in a
[35:48] position to buy things because I think
[35:50] they're going to have to do something in
[35:52] rates. And that's why rates moving
[35:54] higher is actually the best thing for
[35:55] gold, for silver, for copper, and for
[35:58] Bitcoin because the government will have
[36:00] to push rates back down. And that's
[36:02] going to take some kind of debasement
[36:04] move that they're going to have to do to
[36:06] keep these under control. And I think
[36:07] that's a positive.
[36:09] >> So, I just want to make sure people
[36:11] understand because they're going to hear
[36:12] Jordy, Dogecoin, and they're all going
[36:13] to freak out. What you're saying is you
[36:16] almost don't care what the underlying
[36:18] asset, the thesis, etc. You're using
[36:20] Dogecoin as almost a retail index.
[36:24] You're saying there's no institutional
[36:25] participation here. And therefore, if
[36:27] there is excitement in the quote unquote
[36:29] retail index, which is just happens to
[36:31] be named Dogecoin, then that is a signal
[36:33] that you would use that retail
[36:34] excitement is coming back to crypto more
[36:36] generally, Bitcoin, etc. And so really,
[36:39] you're almost using it as like an alarm
[36:40] system because it is the most pure play
[36:43] non-institutional asset that has size
[36:46] and liquidity in crypto.
[36:47] >> I don't even need to say anything else.
[36:49] You just described it exactly the way
[36:50] I'm using it.
[36:52] >> All right. Now, now it makes a lot of
[36:54] sense. I, you know, I had a I thought
[36:56] maybe you drank something crazy in Fort
[36:57] Lauderdale. I was going to have to come
[36:58] check on you when you first texted me.
[37:00] Um, let's talk about uh uh um Trump's
[37:04] trip to China.
[37:06] I saw somebody um I I don't want to uh
[37:09] say who it is because I don't know if he
[37:11] he wants us to bring a bunch of
[37:12] attention to his trading ideas, but he
[37:14] tweeted
[37:16] here's the list of all the CEOs going to
[37:19] China. They're all like trillion dollar,
[37:22] you know, hundreds of billions of
[37:24] dollars and there was like one company
[37:25] that was like a $5 billion company. And
[37:27] he said that he put $350,000 into that
[37:30] stock and that was the only reason why.
[37:32] He goes, "Why is that CEO there?
[37:34] something is going on with that CEO that
[37:36] he's associated with these people and
[37:38] his stock is too small and therefore I'm
[37:40] buying it. And he joked, he was like,
[37:42] "This is what investing has come to is
[37:44] that like the, you know, White House
[37:45] asset management trying to read the tea
[37:48] leaves may actually be a signal for a
[37:50] return." Now, whether that ends up being
[37:52] a good investment or not, I have no
[37:53] clue.
[37:54] >> But it does feel like there has been
[37:56] immense scrutiny on who's on the trip,
[37:59] why are they there, what is being talked
[38:01] about, right? Like there's so much
[38:03] attention on this. Is there anything
[38:06] that you're paying attention to that you
[38:07] think is actually important or is this
[38:09] all just like the soap opera of politics
[38:11] and finance now and it's a lot more
[38:13] noise than signal to you?
[38:14] >> I I really do think that this was more
[38:16] for show. Um I I I thought there might
[38:19] be something big going on and there be
[38:21] some big announcements, but unless
[38:22] there's something later, I think this
[38:25] was really more to show how important
[38:27] the relationship was. It was like
[38:29] bringing people to a meeting that you
[38:31] want to emphasize that you really do
[38:33] want to have a grand bargain. Uh it
[38:36] doesn't seem like anything super
[38:37] important came out of this other than
[38:39] she's going to take a visit apparently
[38:41] to the White House uh I guess in
[38:43] September. But uh I viewed it as one of
[38:46] the reasons that the markets had a tough
[38:48] time overnight is they were probably
[38:50] expecting something positive to come out
[38:52] of this and really honestly nothing did.
[38:55] And I think that's really one of the big
[38:56] things. So, I'm going to take the China
[38:58] US trip as
[39:01] just another sign that um we're kind of
[39:05] in this, you know, mediation between two
[39:08] people getting divorced and we're we
[39:10] realize that the kids are going to be
[39:12] connected to both of us and the kids in
[39:14] this case are the global economy and the
[39:16] rest of the countries and we got to find
[39:18] some way to divvy up the assets and you
[39:21] know, hey, you're not touching Taiwan.
[39:24] Hey, just so you know, we've got control
[39:25] of the world's oil. Um I I think that's
[39:29] what this was. So
[39:31] >> it's like uh uh some sort of I like the
[39:34] word mediation, but maybe um this whole
[39:37] idea of like
[39:41] Trump in particular obviously thinks
[39:43] that China is an adversary in some ways,
[39:46] but he's very complimentary. He is very
[39:49] um uh a showman when he is engaging with
[39:52] them. Um, I always find it uh quite
[39:55] funny that we send the president to
[39:58] China. Very rarely does the president of
[40:00] China come to Washington DC. I think the
[40:03] last time, if I remember correctly, that
[40:05] uh Xi Jinping came to America, he went
[40:06] to San Francisco and there was this
[40:08] whole controversy of they like cleaned
[40:09] up the city for a weekend and then like
[40:11] let it go back into, you know, dismal uh
[40:14] state. Um,
[40:16] and so are you changing anything in your
[40:18] portfolio this week other than selling
[40:20] Micron?
[40:22] >> The biggest thing for me was um I think
[40:26] there was
[40:28] there was a need if not a uh
[40:32] a hope by the market that somehow or
[40:35] another China would intervene on Iran.
[40:39] And we'll see what happens with ships
[40:41] going through the straight. Maybe it's
[40:43] not going to be announced, but maybe
[40:44] Iran is behind closed doors going to
[40:46] allow more ships to go through. But I
[40:48] think that was the most important sign,
[40:50] and that's why you've got oil prices
[40:52] this morning going higher. I'm sure over
[40:54] the weekend, um, as oil prices go higher
[40:56] and as rates go higher, there'll be
[40:59] something out of the White House to say
[41:00] that this is all under control. Um, in
[41:03] fact, I'd be shocked if it didn't
[41:04] happen. So, if if the market ends up on
[41:06] the lows today, just I wouldn't be
[41:08] stupid enough to go out over the weekend
[41:10] short or or or not expecting that
[41:13] there'll be some announcement because of
[41:14] rates moving higher. And every time
[41:16] 30-year yields have gotten above 5%, the
[41:18] government has responded and we're above
[41:20] 5% decidedly. Uh so, I think that's the
[41:23] main issue is that uh the Iran situation
[41:26] didn't really get dealt with and so
[41:29] we're just at a point where the market
[41:30] has run out of gas.
[41:32] >> All right, I want to end on a fun one.
[41:34] and you have no uh no warning of this.
[41:36] So, we're going to get your raw
[41:37] thoughts. Have you paid attention at all
[41:39] to the GameStop eBay saga and uh Ryan
[41:43] Cohen and GameStop trying to buy eBay
[41:45] for 55 billion?
[41:47] >> Yes.
[41:48] >> All right. What are your thoughts? You
[41:50] think they can do it?
[41:51] >> No, I don't think they can do it.
[41:54] >> Elaborate. [laughter]
[41:56] I I So, you know, and this might be the
[41:59] cynic in me. Um, and I don't use social
[42:03] media for this, but sometimes I think
[42:05] people use social media when they're not
[42:07] on the front page anymore. I don't, you
[42:09] know, I mean, I I I think that goes on
[42:11] probably more than we realize to try and
[42:13] get energy, but in particular
[42:16] if your and I'm not going to say it is
[42:19] for Ryan, but if your life is social
[42:22] media and the attention that you need,
[42:25] sometimes I think people just put things
[42:27] out there um to get that attention and
[42:29] to get the fire lit and go through it.
[42:31] So, I I think this, and again, I'm just
[42:34] a cynic and someone who who believes
[42:36] that social media is used to try and
[42:39] draw attention to individuals, that this
[42:41] was purely let's get us back in there,
[42:43] make sure people know GameStop is still
[42:45] around. Uh, let's make sure we're back
[42:47] in the headlines. It is. Uh, I don't
[42:50] think it's real.
[42:52] >> Interesting.
[42:54] I think he really wants to be the CEO. I
[42:56] don't know if the deal can get done, but
[42:59] um I also think it's the perfect target
[43:04] for something that I'm gonna call
[43:07] digital activist investing, which is
[43:10] very different. Like, you know, one of
[43:12] my favorite stories is always the Paul
[43:13] Singer like an Elliot, you know, they
[43:15] went and they took like the warship from
[43:16] Argentina or whatever it was and like
[43:19] that was, you know, that was crazy. But
[43:21] that's like old school activism. uh or
[43:23] or um uh you know maybe a Carl icon,
[43:27] whatever. I think Bill Aman is been
[43:30] touching you know kind of the stove a
[43:31] little bit when it comes to this like
[43:33] digital activism and the ability to use
[43:34] social media. But what I saw with Open
[43:39] Door and I shared this with a with a
[43:41] couple of people uh in private this week
[43:43] u but I'm more convinced the more I've
[43:44] thought about it. We've never seen a
[43:49] digital activism campaign that went
[43:52] after what I'll call like corporate
[43:55] executives.
[43:56] And at Open Door, pretty much the like
[44:00] retail audience me'd CEO until she
[44:03] stepped down. Like they just pressured
[44:05] her.
[44:06] >> And I think that in like corporate
[44:08] America, you kind of throw barbs, but
[44:10] it's like a gentleman's, you know, kind
[44:12] of competition. And so there's like some
[44:14] things that are off limits or you know
[44:15] you don't personally go after people or
[44:17] you would never like post a meme about a
[44:19] person or whatever. But because politics
[44:21] has degraded to where now that happens,
[44:24] it almost feels like that's being
[44:25] introduced now in corporate America. And
[44:28] there's probably no group of people
[44:29] other than the GameStop shareholders
[44:31] that are like experts at doing this. And
[44:34] so it does feel like there's things that
[44:37] they can do. Now doesn't mean that that
[44:39] the corporate governance of eBay cares.
[44:41] Like they may not be on the internet.
[44:42] they just maybe like you know who cares
[44:44] whatever.
[44:45] >> But to me that was my big takeaway is
[44:46] like oh wait a second here you have like
[44:48] the traditional playbook is now meeting
[44:51] this like digital activist playbook and
[44:56] open door was maybe the first time I
[44:58] really saw it. This could be the second
[45:00] one. We we'll kind of see what they do
[45:02] if they stand down or if there's some
[45:03] sort of proxy or something. But I do
[45:05] feel like this is going to become more
[45:07] and more, which kind of ties into your
[45:08] Dogecoin thesis of like actually the
[45:10] retail flows, the retail excitement, the
[45:12] retail energy may be one of the most
[45:15] important signals for people to pay
[45:16] attention to because where attention
[45:18] goes, capital flows, you know, and
[45:20] there's kind of returns that then come
[45:22] off of that. So th this is the beauty of
[45:24] of doing this show with you. And one of
[45:27] the things I take uh
[45:31] I take credit for as an individual who's
[45:34] who's been fortunate enough to be
[45:36] successful to make money but also
[45:39] flexible and adaptable enough to be able
[45:42] to see that the world is changing and
[45:44] that the metrics that you've used in the
[45:46] past for oh this is a bubble this is
[45:48] just like.com we're in a completely
[45:51] different world and most people that I
[45:53] know that are my age that I've known in
[45:55] the industry a long time that I read on
[45:57] X are so bearish and they've seen this
[46:00] before and I you guys have no idea. You
[46:03] don't have the experience. I mean, we
[46:05] lead the show off that I have 30 years
[46:07] in in in in markets and people may think
[46:10] I'm an idiot. They may think I'm smart.
[46:12] They may the whole gamut and I'm sure it
[46:17] >> everyone can have their opinion. But
[46:18] here's the reality. What you just said
[46:20] and I said both can be true. So, I'm
[46:24] looking at it through the lens of this
[46:26] deal is not going to happen.
[46:28] >> What you said, he wants the deal to
[46:30] happen. He wants this. I believe that,
[46:32] too. Do I also believe he's using social
[46:35] media? Yes. Do I believe Open Door ended
[46:37] up being a huge free marketing campaign?
[46:40] Yes. Do I believe that using digital
[46:43] media, my business is content now.
[46:46] Whether I like it or not, it's what I
[46:47] do.
[46:48] >> And I'm out there trying to help people
[46:50] navigate through this. This is the way
[46:52] I'm going to tie it into something very
[46:54] important to me that again I mentioned
[46:55] yesterday.
[46:57] I think you and I both agree and most of
[46:59] the people I know in crypto that are on
[47:00] the macro side of which there's not many
[47:02] believe the distribution of wealth
[47:04] problem will be handled through what's
[47:06] going on in crypto. And the reason is
[47:09] and I I've only learned this in the last
[47:11] year.
[47:12] Micron is up over eight times or was up
[47:15] over eight times from where it was. And
[47:17] yet no institution that I have met
[47:20] bought in at those levels. Most of them
[47:22] didn't buy in at 200. Retail did. And
[47:26] retail will buy to 400. They'll buy to
[47:27] 500. They'll trade it to 800. They make
[47:30] money. And I know people that have made
[47:32] a lot of money trading this stuff. Now,
[47:34] the quote unquote smart professionals
[47:37] that pronounce themselves as
[47:39] professionals. I've been in this game a
[47:40] long time. I know better than you guys.
[47:42] You guys are all going to lose your
[47:44] money. The reality is that's what
[47:46] attracted me to crypto was my son did
[47:49] 700 and the 70,000 and lost it all. But
[47:52] he lost it all for a different reason.
[47:53] He got involved in names that weren't
[47:55] Bitcoin. He didn't know the rotation
[47:57] aspect. He didn't know. Most good
[47:58] traders know, hey, I'm going to ride
[48:00] semis until they're done. That's why the
[48:02] tools that I create are related to
[48:04] things that only retail traders and
[48:06] traders can get involved in. I don't
[48:08] care what it is. If it's if it's a $100
[48:11] thing and it's going to 800, I want to
[48:13] be long it. And if it falls from 800 to
[48:14] 600, I'm fine. I'll move on to something
[48:16] else and try to find the next wave to
[48:18] catch. That distribution of wealth is
[48:21] going to happen over the course of the
[48:22] next decade where retail is going to be
[48:24] involved. And the reason pension funds
[48:26] and endowments and these guys will never
[48:28] be able to make that kind of money. The
[48:30] way that they tried to make that money
[48:31] was by going into VC, by going into
[48:33] private equity, by going into things
[48:35] that in my opinion are going to be
[48:36] completely disrupted by tokenization. We
[48:38] haven't talked about this, but that was
[48:40] part of what my speech was about. The
[48:41] one thing about tokenization that people
[48:43] have to realize for private markets,
[48:45] bringing transparency and bringing
[48:46] liquidity into markets is not good for
[48:49] private markets in VC where they've been
[48:51] able to sit on things for a long period
[48:53] of time, not have to mark things to
[48:54] market and play a bunch of games with
[48:57] shenanigans to be able to go through it.
[48:58] And that is very attractive to pension
[49:00] funds and endowments and places that
[49:02] don't want to take the career risk of
[49:03] dealing with something like Bitcoin. The
[49:05] only people that can handle the
[49:07] volatility that's going to exist in a
[49:09] tokenized world that are going to be
[49:11] able to handle the volatility in a world
[49:13] of prediction markets in a world of
[49:15] microns and semis and all of this stuff
[49:17] in my opinion is retail because they
[49:19] have the risk they have the training for
[49:20] it. I just don't believe that people and
[49:23] institutions can go through and all this
[49:25] came out of what you just said because I
[49:27] do believe social digital AI agents are
[49:30] changing the world and the reason we did
[49:32] this is because we believe these places
[49:34] are merging. So, the fiat world is
[49:36] merging with the crypto world and it's
[49:38] through AI agents and through AI.
[49:41] >> I could not agree more. What uh what are
[49:43] you going to cover in your video? Anyone
[49:44] who is watching this right now, if
[49:45] you've learned anything from Jordy, go
[49:46] to Jordy Visser on YouTube, subscribe.
[49:49] That is the digital thank you. It's like
[49:51] uh my friend Sam Park calls it a
[49:53] gentleman's digital handshake. You know,
[49:55] you're like, you know, thank you, sir.
[49:56] So, go hit the subscribe button on
[49:58] Jord's channel. But what is your video
[50:00] going to be about this week? So I I'm
[50:02] I'm gonna go through the inflation side
[50:04] in detail. It's going to start with the
[50:06] inflation side. And again, I wrote a
[50:07] paper called running hot in the
[50:09] scarcity. And that's my my thing is that
[50:11] the government wanted this. They got it.
[50:14] They got the earnings. They got all the
[50:16] things they wanted. Well, there's a
[50:17] negative that comes, which is when you
[50:19] haven't built enough things, you're
[50:20] going to have shortages. So I go through
[50:21] that. I do think this means that the
[50:23] stock market is going to go through its
[50:25] next phase of a regime shift. Whether
[50:27] that means the market goes down or the
[50:28] market goes up to me is going to be
[50:30] driven by what happens with rates. It's
[50:32] very important for you guys to
[50:33] understand the rate dynamic because this
[50:35] is something again the administration
[50:36] doesn't have control of. They don't have
[50:38] control of the oil situation. They don't
[50:39] have control of the fertilizer
[50:40] situation. They don't have control of
[50:42] NAPA, of helium, of all of these things.
[50:44] And this just means that in a world
[50:47] where we were dealing with lower
[50:49] inflation, now we're dealing with a
[50:51] world where inflation is above interest
[50:53] rates, which makes the Fed uncertain.
[50:55] And we have a new Fed here coming in
[50:57] where it is very very divisive.
[51:00] Uh
[51:02] you just don't know. So I'm going to
[51:03] cover all of that and then I will go
[51:05] through the areas of the market and what
[51:07] you have to look for in crypto including
[51:09] Dogecoin.
[51:11] [laughter]
[51:12] >> All right, we'll do it again next uh
[51:14] Saturday. All right, we'll do it again
[51:16] next Saturday.
[51:17] >> [laughter]

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