Is Bitcoin Really Future-Proof? Yo Jack #2

[0:00] Yo, what is going on guys? How you
[0:04] doing? You are listening to another
[0:06] episode of the Jack Malers Show. I am
[0:09] your host, Jack. This is another edition
[0:12] of our new Q&A segment, Ask Jack, where
[0:15] you guys can call in to ask.jackm.com
[0:19] and at least once a week, I will play
[0:22] your clips and we'll hang out together
[0:25] and I'll respond to them. So, it is,
[0:27] what is it? It's Thursday morning,
[0:28] September 17th. I got my espresso. I got
[0:31] my espresso here.
[0:34] And uh the last episode was so much fun.
[0:36] You guys really enjoyed it. I really
[0:38] enjoyed it. So, I'm looking forward to
[0:39] this. Let's get this show on the road,
[0:42] shall we? First question, we got Ross.
[0:46] Appreciate Ross calling in. Let's hear
[0:49] what Ross has to say.
[0:55] >> Hey, Jack. Ross here. I'm curious what
[0:58] your thoughts are on a sort of future
[1:01] world where humans or people society
[1:05] might begin to reject technology and
[1:08] want less of it. Like even for me, I'm
[1:12] so addicted to my iPhone, I'm already
[1:14] thinking about how I can have less
[1:17] technology in my life and what that
[1:19] could mean for Bitcoin in the future if
[1:23] people don't want to have devices or
[1:25] don't want so much technology or don't
[1:27] want AI overtaking their lives,
[1:31] situations like that in a more low-fi uh
[1:36] society and how Bitcoin might still play
[1:39] a role.
[1:40] as a currency, but with people who
[1:44] really don't want to utilize technology
[1:46] and want to get away from it. Thanks,
[1:49] man. I always enjoy uh hearing your
[1:51] thoughts and [snorts] uh seeing your
[1:52] tweets. Cheers.
[1:55] >> Awesome. I appreciate you, Ross. I think
[1:57] that's a great question. And funny
[1:59] enough, I've thought a lot about this.
[2:00] So, um I'm trying to think how I want to
[2:02] tackle this one. Let me start from a
[2:05] place where I think us humans, we are um
[2:10] children of mother nature. We're a
[2:13] function of mother nature. And and what
[2:16] I mean by that is we're best to be
[2:18] governed by the physical laws of the
[2:21] universe. So a very obvious thing is
[2:24] we're best governed monetarily by
[2:27] something like gold than something like
[2:29] the Fed. Because gold, the constraints
[2:32] that come with gold, its characteristics
[2:35] like scarcity are enforced by mother
[2:38] nature itself, by the laws of the
[2:41] physical universe. Whereas something
[2:43] like the Federal Reserve is an
[2:46] abstraction that is man-made. And all of
[2:49] a sudden you play that forward decades
[2:51] or centuries and you have unelected old
[2:55] men that are waking up on random days
[2:59] and deciding the price of money which is
[3:01] effectively human time, energy, effort
[3:04] and labor. And so I approach the world
[3:08] and our species and society as whenever
[3:11] we drift too far away from
[3:17] physical reality, the laws of the
[3:19] universe, mother nature, I think we get
[3:23] ourselves in trouble and we're best
[3:27] acting as a child of mother nature, one
[3:29] with the universe, being governed by its
[3:33] laws. So now let's talk about technology
[3:36] and your point of well you know what are
[3:38] you know what if people are doom
[3:39] scrolling Tik Tok and Instagram all day
[3:41] and now they see this AI thing um and
[3:43] they want to get back to a world where
[3:45] all of this you know humanoid robots
[3:48] that are going to take over their jobs
[3:49] they want to get back to just farming.
[3:52] Well, I challenge this idea of
[3:53] technology because, you know, people
[3:56] think of technology like a robot or like
[3:59] Instagram or like iPhone screen time for
[4:01] 12 hours a day. And I hear you, Ross.
[4:03] You know, I'm on Twitter all the time.
[4:05] Sometimes I think way too much.
[4:08] But
[4:10] fire is technology, right? The wheel is
[4:15] technology.
[4:17] I don't know if you guys know this. This
[4:19] is a little rabbit hole I've gone down.
[4:21] One of the most, in my opinion,
[4:22] consequential and important technologies
[4:24] in human history was the spear. If you
[4:27] guys do a little research, this is a
[4:29] crazy fun fact. The spear is as a
[4:33] technology is correlated to the most
[4:37] rapid growth of the human brain in our
[4:40] species history. Once we founded the
[4:43] spear and was able to deploy the spear
[4:46] in our everyday lives and make use of
[4:48] the spear as technology,
[4:51] our brains grew exponentially. And it's
[4:54] because it changed what we were allowed
[4:57] to consume. uh fats uh organs. We were
[5:02] eating higher quality calorically dense
[5:05] proteins and fats and ruminants and
[5:08] organs and that had a direct
[5:10] relationship with our physical anatomy
[5:12] and the growth of our brains and how
[5:16] intelligent we were as a species. So, I
[5:19] consider things like the spear a
[5:22] technology, but you know, and I'm making
[5:24] an assumption, Ross, but hearing your
[5:26] question, you're like, well, that's not
[5:27] what I meant. I meant, you know, big uh
[5:31] bright blue light screens that are in my
[5:33] face all day. And so, what I would
[5:35] challenge back is I would say I agree
[5:38] that here's a here's another really good
[5:40] example. Humans are best eating, in my
[5:44] opinion, single ingredient foods. And
[5:48] I'd be hardressed to find anyone
[5:49] disagreeing with that. We are best when
[5:52] we are eating raw, organic, fresh,
[5:57] singleingredient foods. Nowadays, you go
[6:00] to Chick-fil-A and you order chicken
[6:01] nuggets and they're like, "Oh, it's
[6:02] grilled chicken. It's grilled chicken.
[6:04] It's healthy for you. Count the
[6:05] calories." That chicken nugget has 40
[6:08] ingredients. 40.
[6:11] So, this is a perfect example of like if
[6:14] I'm going to eat chicken, I want one
[6:16] ingredient. And that ingredient is
[6:18] chicken. Nowadays, humans have built so
[6:21] many technological abstractions and
[6:23] maybe is for scale to make these things
[6:25] more affordable to combat inflation,
[6:27] whatever it was. But we're so abstracted
[6:29] away from the chicken itself that I'm
[6:32] eating a hodge podge of 40 ingredients
[6:36] in my body. And I think that there's a
[6:38] direct correlation to disease, to
[6:40] obesity, to all sorts of side effects.
[6:42] the further away we drift. So I would
[6:45] say there are certain technologies that
[6:47] build abstractions away from the
[6:51] physical laws of the universe from
[6:53] mother nature. Uh and those are
[6:55] dangerous and those are not good. This
[6:57] is like uh I would say this current
[7:00] iteration of fiat currency that we're
[7:02] living under is a technology and things
[7:04] like the Fed is a technology and swift
[7:07] is a technology and I would say this is
[7:09] dangerous levels of abstraction that
[7:11] remove our relationship with base energy
[7:15] exchange with the idea of scarcity. I I
[7:18] would say that's dangerous abstraction.
[7:20] Chick-fil-A chicken nuggets very
[7:22] dangerous levels of abstraction. Maybe
[7:25] social media in and the way that certain
[7:27] people use the tool is a level of
[7:31] abstraction away from core relationships
[7:33] from being in the sun. Right now, I
[7:36] would say that there are technologies
[7:38] that do not abstract us away from the
[7:41] physical realities and the laws of the
[7:43] universe that we should abide by and be
[7:44] governed by, but actually empower our
[7:47] ability to be natively human. And I
[7:51] would I would categorize Bitcoin in in
[7:53] that. I don't for me personally, Bitcoin
[7:55] does not boost my uh blue light screen
[7:58] time by 12 hours a day or remove my
[8:01] relationship with family and friends and
[8:03] replace it with robots and doom
[8:05] scrolling. You know, Bitcoin is bringing
[8:07] us back to being governed by energy,
[8:11] scarcity, proof of work. I I think it
[8:14] really is taking a money that allows us
[8:17] to be governed by the physical realities
[8:19] of the world and allow and and making it
[8:22] digital so that we can teleport it over
[8:24] a communications channel like the
[8:25] internet. So I consider Bitcoin much
[8:28] closer to the spear to fire to the wheel
[8:31] and much less than a 40 ingredient
[8:34] chicken nugget for example. But
[8:37] hopefully I landed that plane. Um, but
[8:40] it's a it's a topic I think very often
[8:42] about because you know you especially
[8:44] with uh political rhetoric and people
[8:46] trying to really uh you know politicians
[8:49] are so good at hitting people where
[8:52] they're sensitive and where they're
[8:53] fearful and just turning it and twisting
[8:56] it into um getting everyone emotional
[8:59] and wound up to to get votes. So
[9:01] politicians are very anti-technology,
[9:03] anti- AI, and you know, I think
[9:06] technology is bigger than doom scrolling
[9:08] Tik Tok and being mad at Mark
[9:10] Zuckerberg. I mean, the spear was a huge
[9:14] monumental innovation and technological
[9:16] leap for us humans because we all of a
[9:19] sudden were kings of the jungle. We
[9:21] could kill and hunt from distance where
[9:24] we didn't endanger ourselves while we
[9:26] were seeking and hunting food. And then
[9:29] the quality of the food, the quality of
[9:31] the calories, the quality of the energy
[9:33] had a direct correlation to the growth
[9:35] of our intelligence in our brain and our
[9:37] organs. That's a technology. Fire is a
[9:39] technology. I think so. I agree with you
[9:42] that I then and then I got to move on
[9:45] because I know I just rant and ramble
[9:47] and uh and I only end up answering like
[9:50] two questions. So I I agree with you
[9:53] that right now society has found itself
[9:56] so far abstracted from mother nature
[10:00] from being governed. We're being told
[10:02] the sun is bad for us. That's
[10:04] outrageous. The sun is bad for us. Your
[10:07] chicken nuggets have 40 ingredients.
[10:09] Your money can't be audited, isn't
[10:11] scarce, and is centrally planned by both
[10:13] elected and unelected officials. I mean
[10:16] the levels of man-made abstraction that
[10:18] we are being governed by today I think
[10:21] is the reason that everyone has
[10:23] metabolic disease that everyone is obese
[10:26] that everyone's getting divorced that
[10:27] the quality of life that uh the amount
[10:29] of assassination attempts right now is
[10:32] rivaling uh the mid 1800s which was no
[10:35] coincidence the civil war. So, I think
[10:38] we're living in man-made abstractions
[10:40] and a lot of our technological
[10:41] innovations have ventured us far way too
[10:43] far away from where we're meant to be.
[10:46] And a lot of, you know, at least my life
[10:48] and the way I live my life and I would
[10:49] consider, you know, Bitcoin or culture
[10:51] is single ingredient foods, get in the
[10:54] sun, proof of work, energy, scarcity,
[10:58] hard money, earn more than you consume,
[11:01] love others. you know, Bitcoiners are
[11:03] having kids, not getting divorced
[11:05] necessarily, broad broadly speaking. So,
[11:07] I I would I would that's my answer. I do
[11:10] agree that we are venturing back to
[11:14] being governed by mother nature. Uh we
[11:16] we are living through painful lessons of
[11:18] when we get too far abstracted and live
[11:21] in these man-made created um governance
[11:23] structures. I actually think Bitcoin is
[11:26] a beneficiary of that and that people
[11:28] will be attracted to Bitcoin because of
[11:30] that. I think people would be like,
[11:31] "Man, I'm sick of these tech guys always
[11:34] lying. These Sam Alman's always lying.
[11:36] These slimy schemy guys, you know, I'm
[11:39] sick of the Fed. You know, I'm going
[11:41] back to nature to Bitcoin in my
[11:44] opinion."
[11:45] So hopefully that answer satisfied. Long
[11:48] rant, but I think about this a lot. What
[11:49] a phenomenal question to open up with.
[11:52] Okay, second question. Let's hear from
[11:54] Nate. Thank you, Nate.
[12:00] Hi Jack, this is Nate. I just love that
[12:03] you're getting back to tending to the
[12:05] roots of the tree with Bitcoin
[12:07] education. As a high school psychology
[12:09] and economics teacher, I've had hundreds
[12:11] of Bitcoin conversations with kids. And
[12:14] so my question for you is, what do you
[12:17] think is the best hook to get young
[12:19] people interested in Bitcoin? Thanks.
[12:24] Hm.
[12:26] Get young people.
[12:30] You know what, man? I um Well, first of
[12:33] all, I mean, let's just like say the
[12:35] obvious.
[12:37] Financial, economic, monetary education,
[12:40] broadly speaking, is a huge problem. I
[12:43] mean, in modern day curriculum,
[12:46] especially at university, you're taught
[12:47] Keynesian economics, which I think is
[12:50] just scientifically incorrect and wrong.
[12:52] So, you know, I would say for starters,
[12:57] thankful that guys like you are teaching
[13:00] and have an opportunity to teach things
[13:02] like Austrian theory or just what hard
[13:06] money is. The fact that there's money
[13:08] outside of stateisssued or
[13:10] governmentissued money uh and that money
[13:13] as a technology as we were just talking
[13:14] about with Ross, money as a technology
[13:17] uh is not any one single thing. You
[13:19] know, you can use many in in the same
[13:21] way that I could use a banana to try and
[13:23] fly and I'd have a really poor time and
[13:24] hurt or kill myself. Or I could use a
[13:26] jet to try and fly. There are good
[13:28] monies, there are bad monies. So that's
[13:31] for starters is hopefully allowing kids
[13:35] an opportunity to learn different
[13:39] opinions on economics and and not just
[13:42] taking Keynesian economics and shoving
[13:44] it down their throat. Um, I think that
[13:45] that's caused a lot of harm, is
[13:47] incredibly unnecessary. I mean, there's
[13:49] all sorts of conspiracies as to why that
[13:51] is. So, we start there. But I think what
[13:54] you're asking or at least, you know, um,
[13:57] I think that there's an opportunity, and
[14:00] this is a lot of what I try and do, uh,
[14:03] is to make Bitcoin relatable and make it
[14:06] cool, uh, and make it exciting and, um,
[14:09] show that there's opportunity within
[14:12] this thing. There's something really
[14:14] exciting and hopeful about a new idea
[14:18] that is positive, that is generous, that
[14:20] is inclusive, that is uh freedom
[14:23] fighting uh and showing that you know
[14:25] anyone can participate and contribute to
[14:28] it. It's open to all. It's not
[14:30] discriminatory uh and it's global. So I
[14:34] I think and what I think you're asking
[14:36] is you know how how are the you in a in
[14:39] a in a time where the youth are I would
[14:44] say more or less angry angry or
[14:46] depressed and this is data driven. This
[14:48] is not my opinion. You know I've given
[14:50] these keynotes now of trying to be vocal
[14:52] about the damage that's being done to
[14:54] our children. And you've got depression
[14:56] levels, suicide rates, all of the data
[14:58] that you would consider terrifying,
[15:01] scary, and broadly speaking, not good.
[15:04] It's off the charts. And you know, each
[15:06] new generation that comes to be born in
[15:09] this earth, they have a tougher and
[15:11] tougher and worse worse time. Nothing's
[15:12] affordable. Now all of a sudden, like
[15:15] you want to be a doctor, you want to be
[15:17] an accountant, you want to be a lawyer,
[15:19] and now all of a sudden Elon's robots
[15:21] are taking your job. There's no place
[15:22] for you to contribute to this world.
[15:24] It's lonely. Uh you're doom scrolling
[15:26] these social your your relationships
[15:28] exists on your phone. It's very
[15:30] depressing. And I think Bitcoin is a at
[15:33] least for me and what I try and do
[15:35] beyond teaching Keynesian economics and
[15:37] and hard money theory and all these
[15:39] things. What I try and do is it's
[15:41] positive. It's hopeful. It's inclusive.
[15:44] Hey, you can anyone can be a part of
[15:46] this network. Anyone can contribute to
[15:47] this thing. Whether you own a little
[15:49] bit, whether you do an educational
[15:50] video, whether you show up at a
[15:51] conference, whether you become an
[15:53] engineer at a company like Strike,
[15:54] doesn't really matter. Um, but we're
[15:56] doing something positive. We're trying
[15:58] to affect change that is good, that is
[16:00] hopeful, that is inspiring, that is fun.
[16:03] I find Bitcoin a beacon of light and a
[16:06] beacon of hope in a very grim and dark.
[16:09] Um, and so that's always been my message
[16:12] to kids is like this is cool. This is
[16:14] fun. This is inclusive. This is open.
[16:18] And uh I I think it's positive in a
[16:20] world that's like really not positive
[16:23] for children and for the youth. I really
[16:25] don't know. You know, I've got a cousin
[16:28] that is about to go to university. I'm
[16:31] like, what? He's like, what do I study?
[16:33] What what do I what career should I
[16:35] pursue? What am I supposed to answer?
[16:38] Every headline, oh, software developers
[16:41] will no longer be needed. Well, screw
[16:43] lawyers. We don't need those. What is
[16:45] this kid supposed to do? And he's being
[16:46] asked to take out six figures worth of
[16:49] debt. How is he going to pay that back?
[16:52] And you're asking a 16-year-old child to
[16:55] answer these questions of do I get into
[16:57] $100,000 worth of student loans? He's at
[17:01] he's 16 and he doesn't know his place in
[17:05] this world. how to contribute. And I
[17:07] think something like Bitcoin, it's cool,
[17:09] it's fun, it's rebellious, it's
[17:11] ambitious. And so that's my message to
[17:13] the youth is like, yo, we got this. We
[17:16] got this. We're going to win. This thing
[17:19] is awesome. It's fun. It's ambitious.
[17:21] It's inclusive. Anyone can be a part of
[17:23] it. And by being a part of it, you're on
[17:25] my team. You're on Jack Dorsey's team.
[17:26] You're on Michael Sailor's team. You're
[17:28] on It's this growing team that's like,
[17:30] you know what? We're not going to stand
[17:31] for what we were born into. We didn't
[17:33] get to decide what we were born into,
[17:36] but we do get to decide what comes
[17:37] after. And Bitcoin's just it's a
[17:40] movement. It's a revolution in that way.
[17:42] And I try and be relatable and fun
[17:46] because nobody wants like a kid. I'll
[17:48] tell you this. These kids don't want to
[17:50] see me with a bunch of like Harvard
[17:52] plaques and Goldman Sachs awards filled
[17:56] through this closet and Louis Vuitton
[17:58] and Gucci sneakers filled through this
[17:59] closet and me in a button-up suit with a
[18:02] blue jacket on and a bald head telling
[18:04] everyone, "No, they don't want that."
[18:07] They're like, "Oh, Jack is just like me.
[18:09] Jack dropped out of school. Jack wasn't
[18:11] very good at math in high school." But
[18:14] this Bitcoin thing is just saying, "Hey,
[18:16] you know what? the world we're born into
[18:18] is actually not okay and it's not my
[18:20] fault. I'm not a loser. I'm not unique.
[18:22] I'm not a downer. I'm not wrong for not
[18:26] having a place in this world I was born
[18:27] into. Bitcoin is a different approach
[18:30] that says, "Hey, screw this old system."
[18:33] So anyway, that's that's my approach
[18:36] outside of the obvious, which is, you
[18:38] know, hopefully they're learning not
[18:41] just Keynesian economics. Um, okay,
[18:44] awesome.
[18:46] Next question is uh totally anonymous.
[18:49] So as I uh have said before, you guys
[18:51] can submit these uh you do not have to
[18:54] write a name or an email. Um so we'll
[18:57] listen uh from this anonymous caller.
[19:00] Let's hear what they got to say.
[19:05] >> Yo Jack, greetings from Europe. Um first
[19:09] I want to say and express my gratitude
[19:11] towards you. You've been one of the most
[19:14] influential voices during my Bitcoin
[19:16] journey for the past six or seven years
[19:18] and I love how authentic you are and
[19:21] that you always speak your mind for the
[19:23] common man and yeah I just want to say
[19:26] to keep it up and u we love that show.
[19:29] Um my question would be what is your
[19:33] suggestion or guidance for a person that
[19:37] is having an idea and wants to build a
[19:41] Bitcoin product or tool opensourced
[19:45] and um what could be the main target to
[19:49] to pitch my idea and uh yeah basically
[19:53] show a demo or something. Um, yeah. Uh,
[19:58] I would appreciate any information about
[20:01] that.
[20:03] >> Yeah. Awesome. Well, appreciate you
[20:05] calling in. Uh, I'll be in Europe soon
[20:08] doing a little like European tour
[20:10] almost. Uh, strikes offsite this year is
[20:13] in Europe and then I'm going to BTC
[20:15] Amsterdam. So, I'll be in your neck of
[20:17] the woods soon. And thank you for the
[20:19] kind words. Uh, what's funny, so wanting
[20:21] to start an open source project in
[20:23] Bitcoin, having an idea, how do I let
[20:25] people know about this idea? How do I
[20:26] pitch it? How do I get a little bit of
[20:27] momentum? What's funny, that's exactly
[20:30] what started Strike? I'll keep this as
[20:33] brief as I possibly can. Famous last
[20:35] words, but Strike was initially an open
[20:37] source lightning network wallet if you
[20:39] guys didn't know that. So, it's called
[20:41] Zap. And Zap, I actually did not intend
[20:45] to become a business or I mean, all of
[20:47] it, as you guys can tell, getting to
[20:49] know my personality and stuff, all of
[20:51] this is natural. All of this is
[20:53] authentic. It's just a real time
[20:54] journey. And none of the none of the
[20:56] this crazy stuff that I'm into now was
[20:58] like planned 5 10 years ago. You'd have
[21:00] to be crazy. So anyway, we were in
[21:03] what's called the block size wars, which
[21:05] maybe we do a separate Bitcoin history
[21:07] episode on the channel about that. But
[21:09] the Bitcoin community was fighting about
[21:11] how Bitcoin should scale. And some
[21:13] people wanted to change the consensus
[21:15] rules, basically fork Bitcoin, create a
[21:17] new version of Bitcoin. It would have
[21:18] been a really bad idea. Then there was
[21:20] the more technical crowd that I was in,
[21:22] which is no, we need to build layers. We
[21:24] need to build things like lightning. And
[21:26] so to this caller, this anonymous
[21:29] caller's question, I had a idea and it
[21:33] was open source and I needed to get a
[21:35] little bit of momentum. My idea was I
[21:37] didn't want to create a business. I
[21:38] didn't want to monetize it. I just
[21:40] wanted it's very difficult for people to
[21:42] read a white paper and envision change
[21:45] or hear a technical podcast and totally
[21:49] understand. You know, I wanted people to
[21:51] feel it. I wanted them to hold it. I
[21:53] wanted them to experience it. Because
[21:54] when you experience an instant,
[21:56] relatively free, or sometimes free
[21:58] Bitcoin payment, you're like, "Oh my
[22:00] gosh, this is the future." Or at least
[22:02] this is the future of Bitcoin. We
[22:03] certainly shouldn't fork it, change the
[22:05] consensus rules because then what if a a
[22:07] crowd comes around and wants to change
[22:08] it from 21 million? I mean, it destroys
[22:10] the credibility. And by the way, you'll
[22:12] never be able to scale on the base layer
[22:14] anyway. And so I just wanted everyone to
[22:17] be able to see it. And it's so much more
[22:19] powerful to hold it, to see it, to
[22:22] experience it. And so what I did is I I
[22:25] built it. I open sourced it and I just
[22:27] started posting online. And that would
[22:31] be my recommendation is that it's so
[22:34] much easier to convince someone of your
[22:38] vision when they can hold it, when they
[22:40] can see it. And even if they have a
[22:42] little bit of feedback of, oh, I thought
[22:44] this was interesting, but this or if you
[22:47] would consider that it you have to make
[22:50] it real. You have to make it real
[22:52] because I'll tell you this, we talk
[22:54] about scarcity on the show all the time.
[22:57] Ideas, thoughts are not scarce in the
[23:01] same way that words aren't scarce.
[23:03] Anyone can tweet an opinion. Anyone can
[23:05] have an idea. The scarcity is in the
[23:08] execution. The scarcity is in the proof
[23:10] of work. The scarcity is making a
[23:12] physical thing take up space and time in
[23:16] this universe that we're all occupying.
[23:18] That's the scarcity element. Everyone
[23:21] has ideas. Everyone I mean you guys
[23:23] should see you. I log into Twitter. Oh,
[23:24] if I were Jack, I would have done this.
[23:26] If I were Jack, I would. Yeah, but you
[23:28] didn't do any of it. That's the scarcity
[23:30] element. You are sitting online tweeting
[23:33] at me. Anyone can do that. Anyone can
[23:35] look at someone else's life and say,
[23:37] "Oh, I would have. I would have. I
[23:39] should have. I could have." The the the
[23:41] scarcity in all of this is do. That's
[23:44] the Nike. Just do it. Execution. And so
[23:46] I lived that. I just did it. As everyone
[23:49] was arguing, is lightning a good idea?
[23:51] Is lightning a bad idea? And I was like,
[23:52] you know what these people need to do?
[23:54] They need to hold it. They need to
[23:56] experience it. They need to see it for
[23:57] themselves. We're going to argue all day
[24:00] on Twitter and everyone's going to have
[24:01] every opinion. We're going to make no
[24:02] progress. And then pe to get to the
[24:06] conclusion of your question, people
[24:08] gravitate towards that. People want to
[24:10] hold it. They want to experience it.
[24:11] They want to learn. And that's where I
[24:13] think you get momentum. And I you know
[24:15] my project ended up uh recruit we ended
[24:17] up getting a bunch of other open source
[24:19] contributors and then the project gets a
[24:21] little bit of legs and then it moves a
[24:22] little faster and you get a little bit
[24:24] of momentum. So that would be my advice.
[24:25] Just build it. Just build it. Um because
[24:28] there's no scarcity element in an idea.
[24:33] There's there's a scarcity element in a
[24:35] thing that you can touch and you can
[24:36] hold. And I was not ever the best
[24:38] engineer in the world. the people that
[24:40] took over the project and now my current
[24:42] CTO at Strike is like the most talented
[24:45] engineer I'd ever come across by a mile
[24:48] and that's the people I needed to
[24:50] attract into this idea and this vision.
[24:53] Um, but I was good enough to just get it
[24:56] started. So that would be my advice.
[24:59] Just open source it, launch it, tweet
[25:01] about it, share it online. I was
[25:03] recording, you know, screen record
[25:05] demos, be a become a storyteller. Um, so
[25:08] that'd be my advice. just do it. There's
[25:10] no scarcity in in in tweeting ideas or
[25:13] having an idea. There's scarcity in
[25:15] doing the idea. That's the hard part.
[25:18] So, hopefully valuable advice. Um, okay,
[25:22] next one. Oh, we got another anonymous
[25:24] caller, which is fun, man. Um, I love
[25:27] the fact that you guys can call in and
[25:28] you don't got to dox yourself. Um, all
[25:31] right, here we go.
[25:37] Hey Jack, big fan of the show. Long time
[25:41] listener here from Chicago Southside.
[25:45] When are you going to run for mayor and
[25:48] to when are we going to get maybe like a
[25:50] strike like debit card? I hate banking
[25:52] with Chase and all these main ones, all
[25:55] these main banks would rather just um
[25:58] support you and strike and have one
[26:01] place with Bitcoin and my uh Shitcoin
[26:06] USD. Thanks, buddy. You're the best.
[26:09] >> That is awesome. If you guys rewind the
[26:11] tape there, as soon as he said, "Hey,
[26:14] Jack," I laughed. Audibly laughed
[26:17] because that's a Southside Chicago guy
[26:20] through and through. You do not need to
[26:21] leave your name or any details off the
[26:24] Hey Jack. That guy's from the south side
[26:26] of Chicago. Um, unbelievable. What a I
[26:30] love it, man. Thank you for calling in.
[26:32] Thank you for the support. Um, first of
[26:34] all, when am I running for mayor?
[26:36] Listen, I swear to you guys, I'm not
[26:39] kidding. I would genu I genuinely think
[26:43] I could do a better job running this
[26:45] city than these clowns. And I think that
[26:49] um it would be if anything it would be
[26:52] refreshing and
[26:56] progress for like a character like me to
[26:59] step into politics and say you guys are
[27:02] all stupid. Um but I I question one I
[27:08] question like listen there's scarcity
[27:10] element to all of our time. Is that the
[27:12] best use of my time? Um, and I question
[27:15] if you can make change by becoming part
[27:17] of the beast. Like ultimately I want to
[27:19] change like I'm not a fan of government
[27:21] broadly. I think government should be as
[27:23] small as possible or you know you can
[27:26] make arguments that it shouldn't exist
[27:27] in in some ways and so do you change do
[27:30] you affect change from within the system
[27:32] or do you affect change from outside the
[27:34] system which is really public private
[27:36] sector like would I be more productive
[27:38] affecting change in the private sector
[27:41] by building tools like what we're doing
[27:43] at strike and maybe there's all sorts of
[27:45] other stuff I could be doing versus you
[27:47] know entering the belly of the beast and
[27:50] then like trying to change from within.
[27:51] And because what I've seen time and time
[27:53] again is you've got guys like Scott
[27:54] Besson, we talk about on the Monday live
[27:56] streams. Scott Besson, he used to just
[27:59] talk so much at Janet Yellen, at Joe
[28:02] Biden, why are you doing this? What are
[28:04] you doing this for? And then he joined
[28:06] the belly of the beast and he's doing
[28:07] what they were doing only worse. And so
[28:10] then that gives me question of like, you
[28:12] know, if I went into the belly of the
[28:14] beast, would I would the beast just
[28:16] swallow me whole and turn, you know, me
[28:19] into just a pawn of this disgusting
[28:22] mockery of society and human
[28:24] collaboration that they've created. So
[28:25] that's why I've been hesitant and I'm
[28:27] like, you know what, I I probably can
[28:30] affect more change in the private
[28:31] sector. So that's where I'm at now. But
[28:33] hey, if the city of Chicago needs me to
[28:36] run this place, I will do it. Let that
[28:39] be on the record. And the higher the
[28:41] Bitcoin price goes and the high and the
[28:44] more that we just keep chipping away,
[28:46] chopping wood, pounding pavement, brick
[28:48] by brick, block by block,
[28:51] my odds increase. You know, that's the
[28:53] other cool thing. H little tangent here.
[28:56] I got to be careful of time, but it's a
[28:59] great thing about Bitcoin. We're we're
[29:01] all in this revolution together, but
[29:03] we're getting wealthier in this
[29:05] revolution, which allows us to affect
[29:08] change that we want to see. That's what
[29:09] I love about this. Like, Bitcoin at
[29:10] 500K, like we can change Chicago a lot
[29:15] more than Bitcoin at 50K. You know what
[29:16] I mean? So, anyways, that's my opinion
[29:18] on Mayor uh strike debit card. I'll keep
[29:19] this one brief. Listen, I I want to make
[29:22] sure that when we build products, we're
[29:24] building things that we are
[29:27] the best at. And so, for example, I've
[29:30] I've said this example a million times.
[29:32] AMX, I think AMX is going to be better
[29:35] at giving you a rewards card than I ever
[29:38] will. They've got like lounges and
[29:40] airports. If I wanted to launch a card
[29:42] that truly competed with AMX, I'd have
[29:43] to give crazy rewards and build you guys
[29:46] lounges and airports and make sure that
[29:48] when you fly, you can upgrade to first
[29:49] class. Like, that sounds so complicated.
[29:52] I don't even know who to call. And
[29:54] that's like decades and decades and
[29:55] decades of relationships and network
[29:58] effects and economies of scale. Whereas
[30:00] AMX is going to be way worse than me
[30:03] forever at allowing you to borrow
[30:04] against your Bitcoin or allowing you to
[30:06] buy Bitcoin different forms of DCA
[30:08] custodying Bitcoin. They're never going
[30:10] to be better than me at that ever. And
[30:12] so that's why we focused on you know
[30:13] what use your AMX but if you need to pay
[30:16] your bill you can do it from a Bitcoin
[30:19] backed line of credit. You can do it
[30:20] from a Bitcoin fixedterm loan. You could
[30:22] do it from your Bitcoin balance. You
[30:23] could do it from strikes. So this is
[30:25] like banking on Bitcoin. And we focus on
[30:27] the areas where these financial
[30:29] institutions, these legacy institutions,
[30:31] even if Chase said, "Okay, we are
[30:33] Bitcoiners." Can you imagine? Their
[30:34] technology sucks. You imagine logging
[30:37] into Chase and trying to figure out any
[30:39] of this stuff. I mean, it's terrible. So
[30:42] that's why that's been our focus. So
[30:44] I've always been, you know, debit cards,
[30:46] it's impossible to make money on these
[30:47] products. They're fairly uneconomical.
[30:49] They benefit the too big to fails. They
[30:51] benefit those closer to the money
[30:53] printer. They benefit from those closer
[30:55] to the Visa network and and so on and so
[30:57] forth, so on and so forth. So, I've
[30:59] always been weary. Now, with all that
[31:01] being said,
[31:03] we have a culture where like I work for
[31:05] you guys at the end of the day. Like,
[31:07] who's my boss? You guys are my boss. You
[31:09] guys are the customers that allow us to
[31:12] process payroll and support the business
[31:13] and allow us to be profitable and take
[31:16] those profits and buy a license in
[31:17] Europe or buy a license in Canada and
[31:19] just keep chugging and keep going. And
[31:20] so if you guys want a card, it doesn't
[31:23] really matter what I think. I mean, my
[31:25] job is not to predict the future and
[31:27] tell you guys what you want. My job is
[31:29] to shut up and listen to you guys and
[31:32] build what you want. I mean, we're that
[31:34] customer focused. I've already been in
[31:36] that chapter of my career where I
[31:38] thought I was smart. I thought my job
[31:40] was to predict the future and tell
[31:41] everyone the future that they want. And
[31:43] and I learned very humbly like, "No,
[31:45] idiot. Shut up and just build what your
[31:48] customers want." And so that's kind of
[31:51] the internal debate we're at right now
[31:52] is a lot of you guys like this caller,
[31:55] which we really appreciate, is like,
[31:56] "Hey, we just want to support you more.
[31:57] We'd rather swipe the strike card than
[31:59] the Chase card."
[32:01] We could do that. I don't know if our
[32:05] cards are ever going to be better than
[32:06] your platinum AMX or whatever. I mean,
[32:09] we can get you some rewards like 1%
[32:12] Bitcoin back or something, but like push
[32:14] comes to shove, are people really going
[32:16] to stop using their other cards? because
[32:18] then our time and energy is better off
[32:20] on, you know, there's plenty of other
[32:22] features. We could build you guys all
[32:23] sorts of custody products. We could
[32:25] build you insurance products. So, that's
[32:27] kind of the internal debate is that we
[32:29] hear it a lot from customers. We know
[32:31] you guys want it. Is it the right focus?
[32:34] You know, are you guys really willing to
[32:37] move over to a card like ours knowing
[32:39] that we're not necessarily going to be
[32:40] better at building fiat products than
[32:43] these fiat people? So, if you have an
[32:45] opinion, leave it in the comments. This
[32:47] is an internal conversation we talk
[32:48] about all the time. We're always like
[32:50] one decision away from launching a card.
[32:52] It's something that we could do fairly
[32:54] trivially. It's just is that the right
[32:57] product suite for us and who we serve.
[32:59] Um so we'll see. But that's just the
[33:01] dead honest transparent answer for you.
[33:04] Um okay, let's keep going. Um I told
[33:07] myself no longer than 45 minutes for
[33:10] these because you want to keep them
[33:12] digestible. Um so let's keep going. I'm
[33:15] at what? 33 minutes. Okay, Fibos Swanie,
[33:18] he's back. Wow, that's awesome. A repeat
[33:22] caller. Two for two. Fibos Swanie got
[33:25] selected. Let's hear uh from Fibos
[33:28] Swani. Here we go.
[33:37] Hey, Jack Fibos Swanie. Uh I really
[33:39] appreciate you taking my question on
[33:41] that first uh episode that you put
[33:43] together. Uh, I just had a a followup if
[33:46] you wanted to follow up on it. Uh, you
[33:49] mentioned a couple times in your talk
[33:50] about Bitcoin winning. Um, and I really
[33:53] don't understand what Bitcoin winning
[33:56] means. Uh, so my question is, uh, when
[34:00] Bitcoin succeeds or wins, what exactly
[34:04] are we trying to preserve? Uh, is it the
[34:07] price? Is it the institutional adoption?
[34:10] Is winning getting Bitcoin onto the
[34:12] balance sheets of the biggest banks and
[34:14] governments in the world? Or is it the
[34:16] thing worth preserving much simpler than
[34:19] all of that? What would you what's your
[34:22] thoughts on what it means uh to answer
[34:25] that question of when Bitcoin succeeds,
[34:27] what exactly are we trying to preserve?
[34:30] Thanks, man. You're the boss.
[34:34] >> Awesome question. Repeat caller for a
[34:37] reason. Repeat caller for a reason. Um,
[34:40] I think it's much simpler, man. I really
[34:42] do. I So, you know, listen, and people
[34:44] get lost in this. Is it really about the
[34:46] institutions? Do we really want to be on
[34:48] the a balance sheet of a central bank?
[34:50] Listen, let's take a step back.
[34:53] Let's say uh the world as we know it uh
[34:57] and us humans, we are storing, call it
[35:00] 900 trillion worth of stuff. Okay?
[35:03] Right? That's currency, sovereign debt,
[35:06] but that's also precious metals like
[35:08] gold. That's also fine art. That's also
[35:11] real estate. That's also equities. So
[35:13] all of the stuff that we collectively
[35:16] own as a species call us around about
[35:19] $900 trillion. Now about half of that,
[35:23] and this is fairly credible, credibly
[35:25] researched, about half of that is humans
[35:28] have monetized this stuff. And this goes
[35:31] back to the education uh lesson that I
[35:33] just posted on the channel. They're
[35:36] holding this stuff not to consume it.
[35:38] So, they're holding the real estate not
[35:40] to live in it. They're holding the fine
[35:42] art not to actually hang it on their
[35:44] wall. The art is in a vault underground
[35:47] in Manhattan. They don't even look at
[35:49] it. They don't even wake up and have
[35:51] morning coffee and get to appreciate the
[35:53] art. They're holding it as a form of
[35:55] money. They're monetizing it. Meaning,
[35:57] money is very simply a good that you
[35:59] acquire not to consume, but to save and
[36:03] then later exchange. That's all money
[36:05] is. So, anything could be money. Coffee
[36:07] beans could be money. Shark teeth could
[36:09] be money. Art could be money. Real
[36:10] estate could be money. Bitcoin could be
[36:12] money. Dollars could be money. It's you
[36:14] acquire this thing to not eat it, not
[36:17] fly it, not live in it, not hang it, but
[36:20] to save it with the intent to later
[36:22] exchange for the things you need. That
[36:24] means that we have about 450, so call it
[36:27] 400 to 500 trillion dollars of monetized
[36:30] wealth in the world. Okay, fair
[36:33] following so far. Okay, Bitcoin is at
[36:36] what? One trillion.
[36:40] Winning to me is that number going way
[36:43] up. Way up. So when I say things like,
[36:46] you know, there's all these clips,
[36:48] people, you know, clip uh podcasts, uh,
[36:51] episodes of me in these little
[36:53] increments to, you know, get clickbait
[36:55] of like Jack says there's 250 to 300
[36:58] times growth left in Bitcoin and
[36:59] everyone's like that [ __ ] Like does
[37:01] he not know we're in a bare market? I
[37:02] hate that closet. But what I'm saying
[37:05] is, and if you listen to like the full
[37:07] clip, what I'm saying is in purchasing
[37:09] power terms, Bitcoin has a lot of growth
[37:12] left because bit uh real estate is not
[37:15] intended to be money. People are
[37:17] monetizing these things because fiat is
[37:19] broken. And so we need to demonetize
[37:21] real estate, demonetize art, demonetize
[37:24] equities, and I think Bitcoin will
[37:26] incrementally be monetized. Now, that
[37:29] implies that institutions do adopt it.
[37:31] That implies one day central banks
[37:34] consider it. That implies we the people
[37:37] continue to save in it with our excess
[37:39] cash because we want to outpace
[37:41] inflation because we want to own a home
[37:43] because we want to have more kids
[37:44] because we want to be happy and have a
[37:46] life that's worth living and not just
[37:48] being debased to death like pawns in a
[37:51] giant government game. So it implies all
[37:53] of it. But you know when people say
[37:56] things like you know I'm not in Bitcoin
[37:58] for the price. I'm in it for the tech. I
[38:00] know where you're coming from and that's
[38:01] cute and I find it a little bit
[38:03] adorable. But you are in it for the
[38:05] price because the price tells us very
[38:07] simple metric. It's the most important
[38:09] KPI we have. It's how much of the world
[38:13] is using is storing their cash balance
[38:16] in this money that is Bitcoin. So $1
[38:20] trillion of human effort, time, labor
[38:24] elected to use Bitcoin. It's like no,
[38:27] that's the money. That's what I'm
[38:29] monetizing. That's what I'm saving into
[38:31] later exchange for the things I need.
[38:34] And I if that number goes from 1 to 10
[38:36] and 10 to 100, to me, that's winning.
[38:39] And and if you guys play this forward,
[38:42] all of a sudden, real estate, Bitcoin
[38:44] will make real estate cheaper because as
[38:46] real estate gets demonetized, real
[38:48] estate has a monetary premium to it. is
[38:51] that like you're in the real estate
[38:52] market. You have people my age that are
[38:54] trying to be first-time homeowners
[38:56] competing against boomers that are
[38:58] building their real estate portfolio
[39:00] because they're trying to just store
[39:02] money somewhere and have an asset that's
[39:05] appreciating along with this whole
[39:07] debasement theme. And so you're bidding
[39:10] against you're bidding against someone
[39:12] that already has a house to live in and
[39:14] is buying the house that you want to
[39:16] raise your kids in just because of money
[39:20] printing and fiat and currency
[39:21] debasement. And so if the the more
[39:24] Bitcoin monetizes and that number grows,
[39:27] then real estate will become cheaper,
[39:29] fine art will become cheaper, equities
[39:31] will not trade at these ridiculous
[39:33] valuations. Everyone's always constantly
[39:34] since I've been born, it's we're in an
[39:36] equity bubble. We're in an equity
[39:38] bubble. We're in an equity bubble. No,
[39:39] equities is a way to hedge against
[39:41] inflation and currency debasement. And
[39:44] and it the real question is how do you
[39:46] monetize short dollar? How do you
[39:48] monetize chaos? How do you monetize
[39:50] money printing? How do you get on the
[39:52] other side of this steamroller that's
[39:54] just destroying the quality of life of
[39:56] everybody? Okay. Equities, real estate.
[39:58] Now, Bitcoin is the most perfect and and
[40:01] the stats are the stats. It's the best
[40:03] performing. Bitcoin is the most perfect
[40:05] short dollar ever. Ever. But that's
[40:08] that's the truth of the matter. So then
[40:10] when people hear me say this like, "Oh,
[40:12] so you want institutions to adopt it?"
[40:15] Wherever the $900 trillion worth of
[40:18] wealth and and mind you, you know, half
[40:20] of that half of the housing is because
[40:21] we're living in it. Half of the equities
[40:23] is is you're you're owning these
[40:25] equities not as a form of currency or as
[40:27] a form of money. You're owning the
[40:29] equities because it's it's real equity
[40:31] in the business. and things like
[40:32] dividend and earnings.
[40:35] The other half, so 400500 trillion
[40:37] dollars worth of this stuff. Whoever
[40:40] owns the stuff, I think needs to
[40:43] monetize Bitcoin and and not needs to,
[40:46] they will inevitably because the best
[40:48] money will will win out. And you know,
[40:50] Bitcoin's best marketing is like winning
[40:54] and continuing to perform and continuing
[40:56] to work. Everyone's like, man, how'd
[40:58] that guy get that plane? How'd that guy
[40:59] get that house? How'd that guy get this
[41:01] big empty closet? Bitcoin. All he did
[41:03] was own Bitcoin. All he did was stay
[41:05] humble and stack sats and I'm over here
[41:07] sitting in real estate having to manage
[41:08] tenants and there's a leak in the
[41:10] ceiling and the dryer doesn't work
[41:11] anymore. Oh, I'm much better just
[41:13] staying humble and stacking sats instead
[41:15] of managed tenants who's throwing
[41:16] parties and putting leaks in the
[41:18] ceiling. They forgot to turn the fan on
[41:20] in the shower. So, that's my answer. I
[41:24] think it's way simpler than people give
[41:25] it credit for. And I think for some
[41:27] reason people are ashamed to admit that
[41:30] the price matters. Of course the price
[41:31] matters. The price is what we're like.
[41:33] That's okay. That doesn't make you a bad
[41:35] person. The price is the KPI. When
[41:38] someone has excess cash left over after
[41:40] their paycheck, the question is where do
[41:42] you put it? What's the best way to
[41:45] what's the best thing to monetize so
[41:47] that you have a higher quality of life
[41:48] that so that you experience deflation in
[41:50] the in the goods around you? And the
[41:52] more people choose Bitcoin over the
[41:55] dollar, over bonds, over uh real estate
[41:59] ETF, the the better I think personally.
[42:05] So number go up. That's it. Number go
[42:07] up. And sure that implies of course that
[42:10] implies institutions and and this is the
[42:12] other thing. Uh as long as Bitcoin
[42:15] remains credibly neutral. So, I'm not
[42:17] saying number go up at all costs. Like,
[42:19] let's, you know, obviously I'm not
[42:21] saying that for those that know me, but
[42:22] let's not misconrue. I'm not saying
[42:24] number go up at all costs. Bitcoin must
[42:27] be credibly neutral in all the ways that
[42:30] we know. Like the consensus rules and
[42:32] things like the 21 million cap cannot be
[42:34] changed. Nobody can control it. So, you
[42:36] know, I don't care that Black Rockck
[42:37] adopts it. I that's kind of the whole
[42:39] point. The whole point is it doesn't
[42:41] really matter what I think who should
[42:43] you know when you have Bitcoiners that
[42:45] say things like kick someone kick Black
[42:48] Rockck out who like do you understand
[42:51] what you own? Nobody could kick anybody
[42:53] out. That's the whole point. The whole
[42:55] point is enemies at war can use this
[42:57] thing if they feel like they need to
[42:59] settle monetarily. That's the whole
[43:02] point. Iran and Russia and China and the
[43:05] United States can all use this thing
[43:07] like they can use gold. That's the whole
[43:09] point. So, no, no one can kick Black
[43:12] Rockck out and Black Rockck can't kick
[43:13] anyone out. I don't care who uses it. I
[43:15] think everyone should and inevitably
[43:17] will use it as long as no one controls
[43:19] it. As long as it's credibly neutral, as
[43:21] long as it's accessible to all, as long
[43:23] as we can all run a node, we can all
[43:24] self-custody. Even that optionality
[43:27] holds the whole world accountable, which
[43:29] was my answer last week. So, I'll end my
[43:31] rant there. But that's that's my two
[43:34] cents, man. I think it's way simpler
[43:36] like, oh no, Bitcoin achieved $200
[43:39] trillion of monetized wealth in the
[43:42] world, but we didn't make it onto a
[43:44] central bank's balance sheet, so we
[43:45] failed. No, come on. I don't care. Uh,
[43:48] like all of those semantics, like by the
[43:51] way, what central banks own, like let's
[43:53] be real. Let's be honest. That's such a
[43:55] fiat Keynesian. Like, why do I what you
[44:00] want me to sit around instead of taking
[44:02] my fiance on a gorgeous date instead of
[44:05] uh last night I had a a softball game
[44:07] with my buddies. We're in a softball
[44:09] league. Uh instead of going on a run
[44:11] along the lake, you want me to study uh
[44:13] central bank balance sheets? What an
[44:15] utter and complete waste of my time. The
[44:17] truth of the matter is nobody actually
[44:19] cares what these what central banks own
[44:21] or what institutions. I don't care.
[44:23] That's never been part of this. The
[44:25] world needs to monetize something that
[44:27] is neutral and credibly money so that
[44:30] all the other consumable goods in our
[44:32] lives are affordable and used to
[44:34] actually consume for their intended
[44:36] purpose and we have a fixed supply money
[44:39] that's accessible to all that's governed
[44:41] by nobody. We can move on with our lives
[44:43] and be productive and be interesting
[44:45] people. So anyway, my two cents my two
[44:49] cents. Um I don't care about what
[44:52] central banks own. Central Bank's
[44:54] stupid. Um,
[44:57] okay. Thank you for the question,
[44:59] though. Repeat caller for a reason.
[45:00] Repeat caller for a reason. And
[45:02] obviously, you know, I get I get worked
[45:05] up. None of that was directed at at you,
[45:07] obviously. Uh, okay. Next caller, Rob.
[45:11] Let's see. I got All right, I got time
[45:12] for one more. Shoot. Uh, last one. Uh,
[45:15] from Rob. Let's hear it. Rob.
[45:22] >> Hey, Jack. love the content. Thanks for
[45:24] opening up this format. I have a
[45:27] question for you on your opinion about
[45:30] the disclosure of nonhuman intelligence
[45:34] and the impact this will have on
[45:38] decentralized systems and Bitcoin and
[45:41] all the cryptoreated space being
[45:43] trustless and how this will shift the
[45:46] public's view on this technology.
[45:51] I so I really don't think
[45:56] uh
[45:58] I I really don't think that there's
[45:59] going to be a credibility hit on
[46:01] Bitcoin. I assume by the way I'm making
[46:03] an assumption of your question. Uh I
[46:07] don't know exactly what disclosure I
[46:10] mean non-human intelligence is a fairly
[46:12] broad term. Um so I don't I don't know
[46:16] which specific disclosure you're talking
[46:19] about. It could be computer system or
[46:22] another life form. Um,
[46:25] but I will say
[46:27] I'll I'll answer it more broadly and and
[46:29] feel free to call in and be more
[46:30] specific for uh next week's episode and
[46:33] I'll keep this one short, but my my
[46:34] broader answer is that Bitcoin is
[46:36] grounded in very secure ideas like
[46:39] mathematics and cryptography
[46:42] uh things like energy. And so I don't
[46:46] think Bitcoin takes any credibility hit
[46:48] and and obviously like news cycles and
[46:51] and ultimately markets are made up of
[46:54] humans and humans are comprised of
[46:55] emotions and that's what makes this
[46:57] whole thing complicated. Bitcoin
[46:58] wouldn't have these cyclical bull and
[47:00] bear markets if it weren't for human and
[47:02] human emotions. So it's our fault at the
[47:04] end of the day. It's not Bitcoin's
[47:05] fault. Bitcoin is very consistent and
[47:07] very reliable. We're the ones that
[47:08] aren't. So, you know, take it with a
[47:11] grain of salt that of course there might
[47:12] be little bouts and little chapters of
[47:15] people that imply Bitcoin won't work
[47:18] because of uh you know, non-human
[47:21] intelligence and and all of the
[47:24] developments of aliens or other life
[47:28] forms or now computer intelligence and
[47:30] computers are going to be become their
[47:32] their own species and they're going to
[47:33] grow and adapt without our oversight. Um
[47:37] so on and so forth. But I all this to
[47:39] say that you know again Bitcoin this
[47:43] brings me back to the first question.
[47:44] Bitcoin brings us back to being governed
[47:46] by the laws of mother nature. The laws
[47:48] that govern Bitcoin are physical.
[47:51] They're not something like oh that they
[47:54] only apply to humans like these man-made
[47:56] constructs that I've been referencing
[47:57] but now that there are aliens we're
[47:59] screwed. These are physically enforcable
[48:02] laws. And if these physical laws of
[48:04] Bitcoin break, I mean, then the world as
[48:06] we know it is is dead. Like everything
[48:10] that you see, which obviously like I
[48:13] would consider that a scenario that is
[48:16] not tradable, not plannable, like you
[48:19] know, how am I supposed to I if you know
[48:22] because sometimes people will say, let's
[48:23] say like I'm having a few beers with
[48:25] buddies and they're like, "No." Okay,
[48:26] picture this. Picture a world where
[48:27] aliens and AI destroy mathematics,
[48:30] destroy cryptography, destroy everything
[48:32] we know, and they're in the streets and
[48:34] they're taking over and everything you
[48:35] know is doomed and you can't get online
[48:37] and your lights don't work. And it's
[48:39] like I'm sitting here like, what's the
[48:40] point of this question? Yeah, then I
[48:42] guess I die. I don't know. You know,
[48:45] it's like imagine an 18-wheeler going
[48:47] 100 miles an hour just hits you square
[48:49] in the chest. Yeah, I don't I mean,
[48:50] what's the point of this hypothetical?
[48:52] If if you're just trying to get me to
[48:54] say then I would be deceased. If that's
[48:56] what you're looking for, yeah, I mean,
[48:57] it's just a it's just reality. But I
[48:59] don't know. That's not it's not an
[49:01] interesting thing to plan for. There's
[49:02] nothing that I can there's not there's
[49:04] nothing like oh well well then in that
[49:06] case I should own government bonds. No,
[49:08] I mean then we're all we're all going to
[49:09] die. So obviously excusing this like
[49:12] extreme tail end where things like
[49:14] mathematics and energy uh and uh
[49:18] cryptography and all of these things
[49:20] like cease to exist in the world we know
[49:22] it just like goes dark and it's a day
[49:23] after tomorrow scenario where like it
[49:26] that's untradeable that's unplannable.
[49:28] There's nothing there's no interesting
[49:30] conversation to have about that. Bitcoin
[49:32] is grounded in a physical reality that's
[49:34] just as secure as it gets because these
[49:36] ideas are very simple uh and very
[49:38] thorough. So I just don't I don't find I
[49:42] don't there's no credibility angle in
[49:46] regards to okay like what I welcome
[49:49] aliens um nice to meet you what are you
[49:52] going to like 2 plus two is no longer
[49:55] four that because at the end of the day
[49:57] that's what Bitcoin is governed by like
[49:59] 2 plus two is four so you know unless
[50:02] unless aliens are like no no no no 2+
[50:04] two is five and we're all like oh [ __ ]
[50:06] you're right but then then the whole
[50:08] world as we know it is compromised. Um,
[50:10] which like I said, like I I don't spend
[50:13] much time, if at all, planning for that,
[50:16] what's the point, you know, like if a if
[50:18] a car going 200 miles an hour hits me, I
[50:22] don't I don't do extra push-ups for that
[50:24] scenario. I mean, I'm just going to die.
[50:26] Um, so anyway, that's my two cents, but
[50:29] I don't know if I answered the question
[50:30] you're looking for. Uh, NHI is a fairly
[50:33] vague term. Um, and I don't, you know,
[50:35] maybe you're talking more specifically
[50:36] about AI and some of the recent
[50:38] developments of the Frontier Labs or
[50:39] you're talking about some of the UFO
[50:41] stuff. So, feel free to call in and be
[50:42] more explicit if uh if that wasn't what
[50:44] you're looking for. But with that, I'm
[50:46] out of here. 50 minutes, not bad. Uh, as
[50:48] always, I appreciate you guys. This is
[50:50] so much fun. Hearing your voice is cool.
[50:52] Uh, feedback, comments, I know you guys
[50:54] wanted this on the podcast wave, so we
[50:56] will upload it to the podcast waves this
[50:58] time. Uh, and yeah, I don't know. Just
[51:01] let me know how these can be more fun,
[51:02] how these can be better, uh different,
[51:04] you know, should I do more questions,
[51:06] shorten my answers, make these longer?
[51:08] Uh just let me know. Love you guys.
[51:10] Appreciate you guys. And uh I will catch
[51:13] you. We're doing all sorts of content,
[51:14] so I'll catch you on the next one. Peace
[51:16] and love. Take care.