Anthony Pompliano
CEO de GameStop: las máquinas ya son más inteligentes que nosotros
🇬🇧 EN🇪🇸 ES
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TL;DR
Resumen de investigación
▶ Riesgos de la IA y empleo
Cohen manifiesta preocupación por la inteligencia artificial. No cree que las máquinas ataquen primero a las personas, pero teme que la frustración humana ante máquinas más productivas e inteligentes provoque un conflicto entre personas y máquinas; no sabe si llegaría a ser una «World War II». Le preocupa especialmente que el rápido avance de la tecnología reduzca la utilidad laboral de las personas, cause desempleo elevado y afecte la demanda de consumo, con posibles efectos en cadena. Afirma que las máquinas ya superan a las personas en todo lo que pueden hacer, según su opinión.
▶ GameStop, productividad y futuro del trabajo
Cohen dice que GameStop lleva al menos varios trimestres trabajando con un enfoque «AI first» y que dedica la mayoría de su tiempo a la empresa y a mejorar su productividad. Procura evitar reuniones y tener el calendario abierto para trabajar directamente con los equipos, sin intermediación de mandos. Sostiene que la IA aumenta su productividad y visibilidad, y que la especialización en programación ya no es el requisito diferencial que era: con IA, personas sin esas destrezas pueden identificar causas y programar, según él. Al hablar de contratación, prioriza motivación, disponibilidad, capacidad de respuesta y deseo de ganar; no comenta si ofrece remuneración mitad en efectivo y mitad en acciones. Dice que quiere aprender chino y confirma que es un idioma importante, sin comentar si ello anticipa una expansión empresarial. Sobre la automatización, considera que el trabajo de oficina ya es claramente superior para las máquinas y estima que podrían faltar menos de unos pocos años para que los robots superen a las personas en trabajo físico. Cuestiona qué utilidad y productividad tendrán las personas cuando las máquinas realicen esas tareas.
▶ Pausas publicitarias: plataformas de inversión y cripto
El episodio incluye anuncios de Arch Public y Uphold, no recomendaciones personales de Cohen. El anuncio de Arch Public presenta una plataforma de estrategias automatizadas para acciones, materias primas, ETF y criptomonedas, así como una herramienta de cosecha de pérdidas fiscales; afirma que permite rotar capital entre activos y compensar ganancias con pérdidas en cripto. El anuncio de Uphold promociona una plataforma para operar, intercambiar, mantener y gastar cripto y monedas fiduciarias, e incluye afirmaciones publicitarias sobre reservas, rendimiento en dólares para usuarios de EE. UU. y cobertura de hasta 2,5 millones de dólares mediante un programa mencionado en el anuncio.
▶ Ingreso básico, interfaces cerebrales y uso de la mente
Cohen dice que le entusiasman muchas tecnologías, pero no le gusta la idea de una renta básica universal: opina que a las personas les va mejor cuando ganan dinero que cuando se lo entregan, y quiere entender qué ocurrirá cuando la automatización esté plenamente extendida. Ante la posibilidad de una interfaz cerebro-computadora, el entrevistador estima que una persona sana podría esperar millones de implementaciones antes de considerarla segura y consensuada; distingue ese caso del de alguien con una lesión o necesidad médica, donde el balance riesgo-beneficio podría ser distinto. El entrevistador también plantea si sería necesario un botón para desconectar una corriente constante de información. Cohen dice que a veces su cerebro funciona demasiado rápido y que querría un interruptor para ralentizarlo. Describe que piensa en todo lo que puede salir mal, en crear eficiencia y en aquello que podría interrumpir sus planes antes del día del juicio; responde que hay muchos desenlaces posibles.
▶ Inversores minoristas frente a instituciones
El entrevistador plantea que los inversores autodirigidos pueden influir en votaciones y que algunas instituciones observan conversaciones y tendencias en X para seguir el impulso minorista. Cohen responde que, según lo que ha visto, ha habido más ocasiones en que los inversores minoristas acertaron que ocasiones en que se equivocaron. Cuestiona el estereotipo de que son «dinero tonto» y que los fondos de cobertura sean «dinero inteligente»: señala que estos han tenido acceso a más datos y a equipos directivos, pero afirma que, en general, han quedado por debajo del S&P 500. Advierte que es difícil generalizar sobre grupos de inversores. Elogia la comunidad accionarial de GameStop y dice que muchos accionistas respaldaron la empresa basándose en su confianza en él, mientras que una institución podría haber considerado que la inversión no tenía sentido. Contrasta esa confianza con los resultados financieros actuales de GameStop, que describe como distintos de los de 2020 y 2021, cuando la empresa perdía mucho dinero. Sostiene que los minoristas pueden invertir en activos que las instituciones no pueden o no quieren comprar, lo cual puede constituir una ventaja competitiva.
▶ Comunicación con accionistas y prioridad al trabajo operativo
Cohen evita atribuirse fortalezas o debilidades y dice que las palabras pueden engañar; prefiere juzgar a las personas por sus acciones. Señala que suele estar en Florida, aunque viaja, y que contrata ingenieros móviles para trabajar directamente con él. Sobre la comunicación con accionistas, recomienda juzgar a GameStop por sus resultados y su desempeño financiero; dice que la empresa evita centrarse en relatos y que intenta no distraerse con el ruido. Critica que los directores ejecutivos y financieros dediquen gran parte del tiempo a relaciones con inversores y públicas: en su opinión, eso puede agradar a los accionistas, pero no vuelve más eficiente el negocio ni maximiza su valor. Considera más productivo trabajar en la empresa, por ejemplo, con ingeniería y proveedores, y afirma que el tiempo es un recurso finito.
▶ Resultados, exigencia y legado operativo
Cohen confirma que prefiere dejar que los resultados hablen y tolerar que se le malinterprete durante períodos intermedios. Dice que querer agradar puede distraer del trabajo y recuerda a su padre como un operador muy dedicado: trabajaba de 6:00 a. m. a 6:00 p. m., conocía cada SKU, sus costos y márgenes, y hablaba directamente con proveedores. Según Cohen, su padre era exigente con el desempeño y sus empleados no siempre lo apreciaban. Cohen dice que no busca que lo quieran y que, en última instancia, las personas valorarán si el negocio va bien; por eso concentra su tiempo en los resultados.
▶ Errores, supervivencia y GameStop como legado
Cohen dice que no le preocupa gustar a los demás y que la aprobación depende de hacer bien el trabajo; bromea con que a uno lo quieren más cuando ha muerto. Reconoce que cometió muchos errores y califica como error invertir en GameStop. Explica que, una vez que terminó asumiendo la empresa, el fracaso no era una opción y estaba dispuesto a hundirse con el barco. Opina que la ausencia de una salida o de un plan B pone a las personas en modo de supervivencia y puede producir máxima productividad y resultados; incluso se pregunta si se coloca subconscientemente en esas situaciones. Considera exagerada la importancia de los legados, pero, al pedírsele uno, responde que sería dar la vuelta a GameStop. En broma, sugiere que quienes quieran ayudar pueden apostar contra la empresa. La entrevista termina con agradecimientos.
Transcripción completa
[0:00] I don't think that the machines would ever attack us. But I think ultimately there's a risk that we get so fed up by how productive and how much smarter the robots are than us that we end up attacking the machines and then they attack us and it ends up being man versus machine. Whether that ends up being World War II, I don't know. But I do get a lot of concerns [music] over artificial intelligence.
[0:30] >> So when I think about the rise of artificial intelligence, you run a company that has a lot of physical stores. How do you think about any company regardless of whether they are an AI company or not can use this stuff internally to become more productive for themselves as a CEO, for their employees, etc. Like are you guys mandating anything? Are you encouraging the use of this technology in any way? Yeah, we're using a lot of it across the entire org and uh it I'm super
[1:02] fascinated at how quickly the technology is developing. Every single time I think one company is in the lead, another company comes out with a more advanced model. Uh I get very worried about the technology. Um it's hard to not imagine the worst outcome in terms of um high unemployment and
[1:35] ultimately uh I don't think that the machines would ever attack us. But I think ultimately there's a risk that we get so fed up by how productive and how much smarter the robots are than us that we end up attacking the machines and then they attack us and it ends up being man versus machine. Whether that ends up being World War II, I don't know. But I do get a lot of concerns over artificial
[2:07] intelligence. What do you think is the most likely concern you have to actually come into fruition? Is it something that is like physical security or is it more of like cyber? You know, there's hacks, there's like that type of stuff. >> The the pace at which the technology is developing and um how how much smarter the machines are than humans. uh it really puts us in a
[2:38] position where we have very little utility and ultimately if that leads to high unemployment that affects consumer demand and obviously that that can have a domino effect that is not good but it's hard for us to compete against the machine and so uh it's already too advanced like everything that we can do the machine is better at. So, >> so it's interesting. I was talking earlier with uh Jordi Visser about uh
[3:09] he's got this theory of like machine time versus human time and the machines are speeding up and every executive I talked to pretty much is like I feel like things are moving very quickly here. You mentioned you know new models are coming out at a fast pace etc. How do you think about spending your personal time right now? Like do you change what you're doing inside the business? Do you change what you're doing you know in your time off from the business? like how is that evolving with the rise of all this technology? >> Well, everything we're doing at the business is AI first. Um, and it's been
[3:41] that way now for at least the past few quarters. Uh, I spent all my time on GameStop at this point or a majority of my time. Um, and focused on making the business as productive as possible. >> Have you changed anything? cuz you would have told me that 6 months ago, but has anything changed in that time period >> in terms of my time? >> Yeah. Terms? >> No, like let's just say like let's do a day in the life of Ryan Cohen, right? You have a lot of responsibilities. You
[4:12] obviously have employees, you have product, you have to deal with, you know, financing, balance sheet kind of uh corporate development type stuff. You got to deal with shareholders, although you don't really do a lot of talking to the shareholders is what I gather. Um, how do you think about spending your time? And then inside of that, I'll give you maybe an example for me. I built a custom piece of software to start to merge together a bunch of information and uh systems we have so I can just be more efficient because now you know I masquerade as a software engineer and can vibe code stuff like have you built
[4:43] any tools internally? Are you changing what you're doing on a day-to-day basis? >> Generally, I avoid meetings. Uh I uh I keep my calendar pretty open so that I can work directly with the teams and I like to avoid all the noise of middle management and work directly with the people that are doing the work and um AI increases my productivity and it also
[5:13] gives me visibility. What's really interesting about the technology is if you would have said to me a few years ago, what are one of the most valuable skills to have? I would have said being a programmer, being a Java programmer. Like the most advanced best coders uh code in Java. And we're we're at a we're at a point where you don't have to have that level of specialization anymore.
[5:43] that level of specialization, whether it's coding or having zero coding skills, you can use AI to identify root cause to code. Uh, and you're at the same level as the most advanced programmers that uh that's that's just absolutely remarkable in this world. One of the things that I think every CEO or company's trying to figure out is okay, I want to go and uh
[6:13] hire someone. I can't give them a written test because who knows they could be using AI to do all kinds of crazy stuff there. It's a little hard even to give them like a project. One of the things we've done is we've started to implement trials. Like you just come in, you start working with us for four weeks. Let's see how it goes and and kind of see if you like us, we like you, are you productive, do you fit in culturally, etc. How have you changed the hiring process or like the evaluation of talent given that now the talent has, you know, some tools that maybe could make them amazing at interviewing, but then they get inside
[6:43] the business and, you know, aren't all they're cracked up to be. >> The the level of specialization required for tasks is no longer becoming um a competitive advantage or a qualifier anymore or a prerequisite. So really the best performers are the ones that are most motivated. They're the hungriest. They're the most responsive.
[7:14] They're available right away to come in for an interview. They want to work immediately. Uh those are the things that I look for. Generally, it's people who have a chip on their shoulder. They have something to prove and they just want to win. Do they all want to get >> Do they all want to get paid half cash, half stock? [laughter] >> I like that. >> That's a no comment. Okay. Um [laughter]
[7:45] uh what what's something that you're trying to get better at as an executive? Like I find it very fascinating that you know people uh historically have uh I think they're fascinated by you. I think they're fascinated by the approach of the business, etc. But I think I've gotten to know you well enough at this point where you are constantly trying to improve yourself. So like what's like the latest mountain you're trying to climb? >> I want to learn Chinese. >> You want to learn Chinese? >> Yes. >> Okay. Why do you want to learn Chinese if we're months if not a year away from
[8:17] some sort of like auto translation, you know, type technology that you don't even need to know a different language but could speak them all? There's over a billion people in China. It's uh important language to know. >> Okay. Is that important? >> Should we read into uh a large adjustable market that you and your business may not be in but potentially could be interested in? >> No comment. But it's uh it's an important language to know. >> You know, Ryan Cohen is the most
[8:47] interesting person to interview cuz he could just say no comment to every question and it's still entertaining. you know, the guy's got like a he's got a gift here. When you think about the future, uh we've had a couple of conversations in private of kind of where all this is going. And maybe let me paint you an extreme example and then you tell me kind of how realistic you think that is. Uh I could see a world where I get out of my self-driving car that was part of like a Tesla robo taxi fleet. Uh I go to walk into my house, the door
[9:17] automatically opens because it recognizes my gate and maybe my biometrics. And then as I walk in, all of a sudden the humanoid robot that cooked me dinner and has been watching my kids helps me, you know, sit down at the dinner table and you just play this ex example out and it's like everything is automated, everything is robotics, everything is, you know, this like utopia. Is that kind of how you see this all playing or do you see a different future? Yeah, I mean anything right now
[9:50] that is a desk job, the machine is far superior. Uh any computer work when it comes to the actual like uh robots physical labor. I mean, we're still not there yet. We're probably less than a few years away. And then the robots are going to be better than us at physical work also. So ultimately it comes down to what is our utility? How do we as
[10:22] humans ultimately end up being productive? And what does the workforce look like? And uh you know if you look at uh if you look at technology technological advances in the past they you know everyone says that uh we end up rebalancing the workforce and we end up learning other skills but I'm I what I want to understand is what what ends up being our utility once the machines are doing
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[12:55] Atomic Cash Suite program. If you want one app for your entire digital asset [music] life, check out Uphold today. Go to uphold.com to learn more. Uphold.com. Go check them out today. >> Is there one of those machine/rootics things that you think will have the biggest impact or like you're most excited about? >> Excited about a lot of it. Um, but you know, I I don't I don't like
[13:25] the idea of universal basic income. And I don't think that that's good for people's mental state. Like people do a lot better when they're earning as opposed to when something is given to them. So I want to know when it's all said and done, my brain usually like I go straight to the ninth inning and I want to know what are we doing? >> I'm sure you're familiar with the Neurolink technology or like a brain
[13:56] computer interface. >> Yeah, a little bit. How many successful implementations of that technology in a human has to happen before you'd sign up? >> How many would it take before you sign up? >> I'm doing the interviewing. Ryan, [laughter] >> you go first and then I'll tell you my answer.
[14:28] And I know you're trying to calculate how many have done already. >> What? >> I'd like to have some data. Uh, and in terms of successful outcomes. So now your turn. [laughter] >> So you're trying to learn Chinese. I'm just learning corporate That's a a no comment. [laughter] I I think that it's got to be for me probably millions. And I think that it is very different if you know I've got hopefully a somewhat functioning brain. I'm not you know uh impaired in in any
[15:00] material way. So the like riskreward is probably different than let's say you know if you had some sort of injury if you had some sort of uh medical situation where could it be like a zero to one moment you know all of a sudden you could speak better or you know something like that. I think it's a different calculation, but for like the average healthy person, I think people are going to want to see uh probably millions of implementations before they're like, "Okay, this is like no longer kind of fringe contrarian. This
[15:30] is just like full-on consensus. This is safe. This is good." You know, and almost like I'm falling behind, right? If everyone else starts to get it and I don't, then I'm going to be behind. I think that's a huge catalyst for people to start to do it. >> Yeah. I could be in interviews and there's so much stuff I want to say and I have to stop myself from saying it. So, it'd be good. >> This is a safe place. Nobody's Nobody's listening or watching. [laughter] >> Nobody's listening or watching. >> I need like a on off
[16:00] button. [laughter] >> Look, this is it. As much as funny as it is, like if you start to think about the processing power of your brain, we um I'm always uh a fan of I think Naval Ravocant says like work like a lion, you know, kind of like go through the day, you're conserving energy and then in these moments like it's like a full-on sprint. And when you think about that, our brains kind of do that. And whether people are worried about doom scrolling or, you know, watching some stupid TV
[16:30] show or just like going for a walk and not really thinking about anything, shower time, right? people get ideas in the shower or whatever. Your brain kind of needs the I'm not fully, you know, at capacity. I don't know how that works with a brain computer interface. Like, is that enjoyable? If you just like have a constant stream of intelligence in your brain, maybe you do want an off button, right? That would be very helpful. My brain sometimes works too quickly and if I get it into like second or third gear, it
[17:00] ends up being more productive. So, I'd like a slow down switch. >> Okay. So, on, off button. Got it. Um, what goes on in your brain before the computer interface? Like, what do you think about all day? >> Everything that can go wrong. Um, how to create more efficiency, anything that can interrupt my plans between now and judgment day.
[17:32] a lot. >> What do you think happens on judgment day? >> A lot. There's a lot of different possible outcomes. >> Listen, if you're going to bring it up, I it's fair game, right? [laughter] All right, let's let's talk about uh public markets and like the rise of the retail investor. Uh most people in this room are what I would call like an independent investor, self-directed investor. And one of the things I think is fascinating is not only do they want
[18:03] more control over their finances, but they are changing the way that the market works in a variety of different ways. In one hand, you could argue that you're taking money away from some of these larger players. And so things like votings, proxies, things like that could, you know, be swayed. But maybe more importantly is when I talk to a lot of folks on uh hedge fund teams, they're now talking about like we're trying to see what people are talking about on X. We're trying to see where the momentum in retail is. And then the institutions are following that energy which is very different than I think kind of the the
[18:33] mainstream narrative of like the retail investor is you know dumb money and there's smart money on Wall Street. What do you see that developing into like you you are probably one of the people closest to this. You've been a big beneficiary of that energy. How does this play out over the next couple years in your vision? Uh what we've seen is there's probably been more cases where retail investors have been right and than retail investors
[19:03] have been wrong. And so like it's exactly what you get. People look at basically retail as being dumb money. And you know, then you look at hedge funds as an example, and I guess they're supposed to be considered the smart money, but they all underperform the S&P 500, and they have access to arguably more data. They have greater access to management teams, and
[19:34] they underperform. So, it's really hard to speak and to like make stereotypes in general and like talk about a basket of retail investors versus institutional money, but in general, I mean, if you look at we have a we have an incredible shareholder base at GameStop. Now, uh I don't know how many companies that are
[20:04] traded in the S&P 500 have that kind of community that that we have. And what's interesting is, you know, you look at a lot of these shareholders and they underwrote GameStop basically just based on believing in me. Like that was their diligence which is admirable because like an institution would look at it and say this doesn't make any sense but they ultimately
[20:34] believed and you look at the financial results of the company today and it looks a lot different than than it did in the past and uh than it did in you know 2021 and 2020 when the company was losing a lot of money. So in a lot of ways retail investors have a lot of advantages that the institutions don't have because they can invest in a lot of stuff that the institutions won't and that creates a competitive advantage in itself. >> So I'm messaging with some people on
[21:04] your team right now and I told them I thought I was going to get you to explain judgment day there for a second. That would have been uh that would have been great. But I want to ask more personal questions. If I was to talk to your team, what would they say your greatest strength and your greatest weakness is? >> Would have to ask them. [laughter] >> You got you got to give me something. >> You know, I look like words can be very deceiving. So
[21:36] when I look at people, I really try to filter out the words and just look at their actions because some people just have away with words and whatever whatever I tell you is what I want you to believe, but it doesn't necessarily mean that that's the truth. So am I the best am I the best person to answer that question? >> Hopefully they don't lie to us, Ryan. They better not have nice things to say.
[22:06] >> Your team better not >> That means I'm doing something wrong. >> All right. When uh I saw a tweet that you put out where you were asking for engineers and you said work directly with me, but then you said on-site in Grapevine, Texas. Are you living in Texas? Are you living in Florida? Are you living in California? Are living somewhere remote around the world where you don't want to tell us? No, I'm I'm generally uh in Florida, but I'm I'm all over the place also. Um and
[22:38] I'm hiring mobile engineers to work directly with me. So, if you know anyone, >> well, they want to know half cash, half stock. >> Okay. [laughter] >> I mean, if you if you offer it, then you got you gotta also pay it, right? How many time how many jokes do you think people have made to you about half cash half stocks in the last six months? >> Well, it wasn't a joke, but there's been a lot of them. >> It's the greatest non- joke of all time. Um, all right. When uh when you think
[23:08] about uh corporate communications, another thing that I think you guys have done a great job. You you do have a communications team. They are very good. Uh but you I think understand better than most how to communicate directly to the people in this room, communicate directly to uh shareholders online. Are there any things that you've learned? Like, let's do a little reverse here. You you mentor me. What would you tell me as the CEO of a public company on how to communicate with shareholders the Ryan Cohen way? >> Judge us by our results and our
[23:40] financial performance. And so we've stayed away from uh storytelling uh and and really focused on our uh on the performance of the business and um there's I try not to get distracted I guess by by noise and like if you look at uh most public company execut executives, the
[24:11] CEO and the CFO, they spend the majority of their time on investor relations and public relations. And when you think about what value that actually adds to the earnings capacity of the business, aside from placating shareholders, and and that's the irony is that if you invest a lot of the time with shareholders, they're going to like you, but that's not going to make the business more efficient. uh and it's not
[24:41] going to maximize value for shareholders. So when I think about my time in terms of productivity, the best time that I could spend is focusing on like doing real work and actually focusing on the business, whether that's talking to the engineering team, talking to suppliers, but I mean I I think about that's the it's the most valuable commodity we all have is our time and it's finite and we want to use it as
[25:13] productively as possible. >> So when you're thinking about those financial results, there's obviously many different things that can contribute to that. You can grow revenue, you can cut cost, you can acquire things. There are many stories told about your business, about you, about your approach. Sometimes it is coming from you guys, other times it's coming from others. Do you just ignore kind of all that noise and you just say, "Look, the results will speak for themselves." and you're willing to be
[25:43] misunderstood for periods of time in between or do you think that addressing rumors or you know maybe mis misstatements is important? No, it's uh definitely the former and the I guess like a lot of people want to be liked and so it's easy to get distracted by the noise and so it goes back to your original question in terms of like how
[26:13] would my employees describe me? I hope they don't like me. Like my my father was the the best operator I have ever met. He didn't miss a day of work. Clocked in at 6:00 a.m. 6:00 p.m. Knew every single skew. Knew his costs. Knew his margin. Communicated directly with suppliers. Hated people who were doing desk jobs. Only like the people who were doing physical work. And his employees
[26:45] liked him very much. like his employees really didn't like him. He made his employees cry most of the time because it's business and if they weren't doing a good job, he wasn't shy about it. So, I don't have the the desire to like to be liked. I think that when you want to be liked, I mean, it doesn't take you very far in life. Ultimately, what people are going to like is is is the business is the business doing well.
[27:16] They're going to like the result. So, that's that's what I spend my time on. >> Anyone kind of feels along the way is doesn't really make a difference. >> Where does that come from, you think? Like, why do you not care if people like you? >> Cuz why should I? >> They like me if I do a good job. You know, when you're most liked, you're most like when you're dead. That's when people really like you. >> That is true. You know, my father used
[27:47] to always say, uh, there's nothing more fun than winning. So, if you just win, then everyone has fun, right? >> Yeah. So, when I'm no longer here and I'm six feet under, >> what? >> It doesn't matter. >> It's fair. Probably true. What's a failure that you think you've learned from? The great Ryan Cohen, the almighty power. You probably screwed up once or twice. What do you think you've learned from? >> Well, I've screwed up many times. Um, I
[28:19] mean, investing in GameStop was a screw up, [laughter] >> dude. G give the uh I'm going to give the quick synopsis, then you tell us a failure you learned from. is uh for those that don't know, Ryan kind of bought into GameStop, thought it was fun, then somehow they asked him to be on the board, and then they were like, "Uh, okay, now you're going to be the CEO." And so, fast forward, now he's the CEO of GameStop, but that was not his plan to, uh, to start. >> Yeah. I mean, uh, so that was a mistake. I've made a lot of mistakes,
[28:52] but when I end up uh in a situation like, you know, taking over GameStop, failure wasn't an option. If it was, I was, you know, going to go down with the ship. So, when you're in a position where uh there's no exit hatch, that's when that's when greatness is achieved. That's when you get like maximum uh productivity and results of people is when you're in survival mode and there's
[29:25] no plan B. So, I don't know, maybe I subconsciously put myself in situations like that, but that's when uh that's when you get the best results in life. >> I apologize in advance. You know, a reporter's right in the story right now. Ryan Cohen's biggest failure is investing in GameStop 100%. Um, my last question for you is, uh, what do you want your legacy to be when you're 6 feet under? >> Once you're dead, people pretend to care
[29:57] for like a few days and then everybody moves on. So, you know, my dad would say, uh, you know, you you only, uh, you only go around you only go on the ride once, so you might as well enjoy it. So, I don't know. I I think that legacies are overrated. >> But you're still going to have one. So, what do you want it to be? >> Turning around GameStop. [laughter] >> Here lies the man that turned around GameStop.
[30:30] All right. What can people in this room do to help you other than laugh at all your jokes and enjoy your entertaining interviews? >> Bet against us. [laughter] Here lies the man [laughter] that turned around GameStop after everyone bet against them. >> Right. Exactly. >> All right. I appreciate you doing this. I know you got a very busy schedule, it sounds like. So, uh, [laughter]
[31:00] thanks for taking the time to uh to beam yourself in from uh Texas, Florida, the moon, wherever you are. We'll do it again soon. >> Always a pleasure. >> All right. spot.
[0:30] >> So when I think about the rise of artificial intelligence, you run a company that has a lot of physical stores. How do you think about any company regardless of whether they are an AI company or not can use this stuff internally to become more productive for themselves as a CEO, for their employees, etc. Like are you guys mandating anything? Are you encouraging the use of this technology in any way? Yeah, we're using a lot of it across the entire org and uh it I'm super
[1:02] fascinated at how quickly the technology is developing. Every single time I think one company is in the lead, another company comes out with a more advanced model. Uh I get very worried about the technology. Um it's hard to not imagine the worst outcome in terms of um high unemployment and
[1:35] ultimately uh I don't think that the machines would ever attack us. But I think ultimately there's a risk that we get so fed up by how productive and how much smarter the robots are than us that we end up attacking the machines and then they attack us and it ends up being man versus machine. Whether that ends up being World War II, I don't know. But I do get a lot of concerns over artificial
[2:07] intelligence. What do you think is the most likely concern you have to actually come into fruition? Is it something that is like physical security or is it more of like cyber? You know, there's hacks, there's like that type of stuff. >> The the pace at which the technology is developing and um how how much smarter the machines are than humans. uh it really puts us in a
[2:38] position where we have very little utility and ultimately if that leads to high unemployment that affects consumer demand and obviously that that can have a domino effect that is not good but it's hard for us to compete against the machine and so uh it's already too advanced like everything that we can do the machine is better at. So, >> so it's interesting. I was talking earlier with uh Jordi Visser about uh
[3:09] he's got this theory of like machine time versus human time and the machines are speeding up and every executive I talked to pretty much is like I feel like things are moving very quickly here. You mentioned you know new models are coming out at a fast pace etc. How do you think about spending your personal time right now? Like do you change what you're doing inside the business? Do you change what you're doing you know in your time off from the business? like how is that evolving with the rise of all this technology? >> Well, everything we're doing at the business is AI first. Um, and it's been
[3:41] that way now for at least the past few quarters. Uh, I spent all my time on GameStop at this point or a majority of my time. Um, and focused on making the business as productive as possible. >> Have you changed anything? cuz you would have told me that 6 months ago, but has anything changed in that time period >> in terms of my time? >> Yeah. Terms? >> No, like let's just say like let's do a day in the life of Ryan Cohen, right? You have a lot of responsibilities. You
[4:12] obviously have employees, you have product, you have to deal with, you know, financing, balance sheet kind of uh corporate development type stuff. You got to deal with shareholders, although you don't really do a lot of talking to the shareholders is what I gather. Um, how do you think about spending your time? And then inside of that, I'll give you maybe an example for me. I built a custom piece of software to start to merge together a bunch of information and uh systems we have so I can just be more efficient because now you know I masquerade as a software engineer and can vibe code stuff like have you built
[4:43] any tools internally? Are you changing what you're doing on a day-to-day basis? >> Generally, I avoid meetings. Uh I uh I keep my calendar pretty open so that I can work directly with the teams and I like to avoid all the noise of middle management and work directly with the people that are doing the work and um AI increases my productivity and it also
[5:13] gives me visibility. What's really interesting about the technology is if you would have said to me a few years ago, what are one of the most valuable skills to have? I would have said being a programmer, being a Java programmer. Like the most advanced best coders uh code in Java. And we're we're at a we're at a point where you don't have to have that level of specialization anymore.
[5:43] that level of specialization, whether it's coding or having zero coding skills, you can use AI to identify root cause to code. Uh, and you're at the same level as the most advanced programmers that uh that's that's just absolutely remarkable in this world. One of the things that I think every CEO or company's trying to figure out is okay, I want to go and uh
[6:13] hire someone. I can't give them a written test because who knows they could be using AI to do all kinds of crazy stuff there. It's a little hard even to give them like a project. One of the things we've done is we've started to implement trials. Like you just come in, you start working with us for four weeks. Let's see how it goes and and kind of see if you like us, we like you, are you productive, do you fit in culturally, etc. How have you changed the hiring process or like the evaluation of talent given that now the talent has, you know, some tools that maybe could make them amazing at interviewing, but then they get inside
[6:43] the business and, you know, aren't all they're cracked up to be. >> The the level of specialization required for tasks is no longer becoming um a competitive advantage or a qualifier anymore or a prerequisite. So really the best performers are the ones that are most motivated. They're the hungriest. They're the most responsive.
[7:14] They're available right away to come in for an interview. They want to work immediately. Uh those are the things that I look for. Generally, it's people who have a chip on their shoulder. They have something to prove and they just want to win. Do they all want to get >> Do they all want to get paid half cash, half stock? [laughter] >> I like that. >> That's a no comment. Okay. Um [laughter]
[7:45] uh what what's something that you're trying to get better at as an executive? Like I find it very fascinating that you know people uh historically have uh I think they're fascinated by you. I think they're fascinated by the approach of the business, etc. But I think I've gotten to know you well enough at this point where you are constantly trying to improve yourself. So like what's like the latest mountain you're trying to climb? >> I want to learn Chinese. >> You want to learn Chinese? >> Yes. >> Okay. Why do you want to learn Chinese if we're months if not a year away from
[8:17] some sort of like auto translation, you know, type technology that you don't even need to know a different language but could speak them all? There's over a billion people in China. It's uh important language to know. >> Okay. Is that important? >> Should we read into uh a large adjustable market that you and your business may not be in but potentially could be interested in? >> No comment. But it's uh it's an important language to know. >> You know, Ryan Cohen is the most
[8:47] interesting person to interview cuz he could just say no comment to every question and it's still entertaining. you know, the guy's got like a he's got a gift here. When you think about the future, uh we've had a couple of conversations in private of kind of where all this is going. And maybe let me paint you an extreme example and then you tell me kind of how realistic you think that is. Uh I could see a world where I get out of my self-driving car that was part of like a Tesla robo taxi fleet. Uh I go to walk into my house, the door
[9:17] automatically opens because it recognizes my gate and maybe my biometrics. And then as I walk in, all of a sudden the humanoid robot that cooked me dinner and has been watching my kids helps me, you know, sit down at the dinner table and you just play this ex example out and it's like everything is automated, everything is robotics, everything is, you know, this like utopia. Is that kind of how you see this all playing or do you see a different future? Yeah, I mean anything right now
[9:50] that is a desk job, the machine is far superior. Uh any computer work when it comes to the actual like uh robots physical labor. I mean, we're still not there yet. We're probably less than a few years away. And then the robots are going to be better than us at physical work also. So ultimately it comes down to what is our utility? How do we as
[10:22] humans ultimately end up being productive? And what does the workforce look like? And uh you know if you look at uh if you look at technology technological advances in the past they you know everyone says that uh we end up rebalancing the workforce and we end up learning other skills but I'm I what I want to understand is what what ends up being our utility once the machines are doing
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[12:55] Atomic Cash Suite program. If you want one app for your entire digital asset [music] life, check out Uphold today. Go to uphold.com to learn more. Uphold.com. Go check them out today. >> Is there one of those machine/rootics things that you think will have the biggest impact or like you're most excited about? >> Excited about a lot of it. Um, but you know, I I don't I don't like
[13:25] the idea of universal basic income. And I don't think that that's good for people's mental state. Like people do a lot better when they're earning as opposed to when something is given to them. So I want to know when it's all said and done, my brain usually like I go straight to the ninth inning and I want to know what are we doing? >> I'm sure you're familiar with the Neurolink technology or like a brain
[13:56] computer interface. >> Yeah, a little bit. How many successful implementations of that technology in a human has to happen before you'd sign up? >> How many would it take before you sign up? >> I'm doing the interviewing. Ryan, [laughter] >> you go first and then I'll tell you my answer.
[14:28] And I know you're trying to calculate how many have done already. >> What? >> I'd like to have some data. Uh, and in terms of successful outcomes. So now your turn. [laughter] >> So you're trying to learn Chinese. I'm just learning corporate That's a a no comment. [laughter] I I think that it's got to be for me probably millions. And I think that it is very different if you know I've got hopefully a somewhat functioning brain. I'm not you know uh impaired in in any
[15:00] material way. So the like riskreward is probably different than let's say you know if you had some sort of injury if you had some sort of uh medical situation where could it be like a zero to one moment you know all of a sudden you could speak better or you know something like that. I think it's a different calculation, but for like the average healthy person, I think people are going to want to see uh probably millions of implementations before they're like, "Okay, this is like no longer kind of fringe contrarian. This
[15:30] is just like full-on consensus. This is safe. This is good." You know, and almost like I'm falling behind, right? If everyone else starts to get it and I don't, then I'm going to be behind. I think that's a huge catalyst for people to start to do it. >> Yeah. I could be in interviews and there's so much stuff I want to say and I have to stop myself from saying it. So, it'd be good. >> This is a safe place. Nobody's Nobody's listening or watching. [laughter] >> Nobody's listening or watching. >> I need like a on off
[16:00] button. [laughter] >> Look, this is it. As much as funny as it is, like if you start to think about the processing power of your brain, we um I'm always uh a fan of I think Naval Ravocant says like work like a lion, you know, kind of like go through the day, you're conserving energy and then in these moments like it's like a full-on sprint. And when you think about that, our brains kind of do that. And whether people are worried about doom scrolling or, you know, watching some stupid TV
[16:30] show or just like going for a walk and not really thinking about anything, shower time, right? people get ideas in the shower or whatever. Your brain kind of needs the I'm not fully, you know, at capacity. I don't know how that works with a brain computer interface. Like, is that enjoyable? If you just like have a constant stream of intelligence in your brain, maybe you do want an off button, right? That would be very helpful. My brain sometimes works too quickly and if I get it into like second or third gear, it
[17:00] ends up being more productive. So, I'd like a slow down switch. >> Okay. So, on, off button. Got it. Um, what goes on in your brain before the computer interface? Like, what do you think about all day? >> Everything that can go wrong. Um, how to create more efficiency, anything that can interrupt my plans between now and judgment day.
[17:32] a lot. >> What do you think happens on judgment day? >> A lot. There's a lot of different possible outcomes. >> Listen, if you're going to bring it up, I it's fair game, right? [laughter] All right, let's let's talk about uh public markets and like the rise of the retail investor. Uh most people in this room are what I would call like an independent investor, self-directed investor. And one of the things I think is fascinating is not only do they want
[18:03] more control over their finances, but they are changing the way that the market works in a variety of different ways. In one hand, you could argue that you're taking money away from some of these larger players. And so things like votings, proxies, things like that could, you know, be swayed. But maybe more importantly is when I talk to a lot of folks on uh hedge fund teams, they're now talking about like we're trying to see what people are talking about on X. We're trying to see where the momentum in retail is. And then the institutions are following that energy which is very different than I think kind of the the
[18:33] mainstream narrative of like the retail investor is you know dumb money and there's smart money on Wall Street. What do you see that developing into like you you are probably one of the people closest to this. You've been a big beneficiary of that energy. How does this play out over the next couple years in your vision? Uh what we've seen is there's probably been more cases where retail investors have been right and than retail investors
[19:03] have been wrong. And so like it's exactly what you get. People look at basically retail as being dumb money. And you know, then you look at hedge funds as an example, and I guess they're supposed to be considered the smart money, but they all underperform the S&P 500, and they have access to arguably more data. They have greater access to management teams, and
[19:34] they underperform. So, it's really hard to speak and to like make stereotypes in general and like talk about a basket of retail investors versus institutional money, but in general, I mean, if you look at we have a we have an incredible shareholder base at GameStop. Now, uh I don't know how many companies that are
[20:04] traded in the S&P 500 have that kind of community that that we have. And what's interesting is, you know, you look at a lot of these shareholders and they underwrote GameStop basically just based on believing in me. Like that was their diligence which is admirable because like an institution would look at it and say this doesn't make any sense but they ultimately
[20:34] believed and you look at the financial results of the company today and it looks a lot different than than it did in the past and uh than it did in you know 2021 and 2020 when the company was losing a lot of money. So in a lot of ways retail investors have a lot of advantages that the institutions don't have because they can invest in a lot of stuff that the institutions won't and that creates a competitive advantage in itself. >> So I'm messaging with some people on
[21:04] your team right now and I told them I thought I was going to get you to explain judgment day there for a second. That would have been uh that would have been great. But I want to ask more personal questions. If I was to talk to your team, what would they say your greatest strength and your greatest weakness is? >> Would have to ask them. [laughter] >> You got you got to give me something. >> You know, I look like words can be very deceiving. So
[21:36] when I look at people, I really try to filter out the words and just look at their actions because some people just have away with words and whatever whatever I tell you is what I want you to believe, but it doesn't necessarily mean that that's the truth. So am I the best am I the best person to answer that question? >> Hopefully they don't lie to us, Ryan. They better not have nice things to say.
[22:06] >> Your team better not >> That means I'm doing something wrong. >> All right. When uh I saw a tweet that you put out where you were asking for engineers and you said work directly with me, but then you said on-site in Grapevine, Texas. Are you living in Texas? Are you living in Florida? Are you living in California? Are living somewhere remote around the world where you don't want to tell us? No, I'm I'm generally uh in Florida, but I'm I'm all over the place also. Um and
[22:38] I'm hiring mobile engineers to work directly with me. So, if you know anyone, >> well, they want to know half cash, half stock. >> Okay. [laughter] >> I mean, if you if you offer it, then you got you gotta also pay it, right? How many time how many jokes do you think people have made to you about half cash half stocks in the last six months? >> Well, it wasn't a joke, but there's been a lot of them. >> It's the greatest non- joke of all time. Um, all right. When uh when you think
[23:08] about uh corporate communications, another thing that I think you guys have done a great job. You you do have a communications team. They are very good. Uh but you I think understand better than most how to communicate directly to the people in this room, communicate directly to uh shareholders online. Are there any things that you've learned? Like, let's do a little reverse here. You you mentor me. What would you tell me as the CEO of a public company on how to communicate with shareholders the Ryan Cohen way? >> Judge us by our results and our
[23:40] financial performance. And so we've stayed away from uh storytelling uh and and really focused on our uh on the performance of the business and um there's I try not to get distracted I guess by by noise and like if you look at uh most public company execut executives, the
[24:11] CEO and the CFO, they spend the majority of their time on investor relations and public relations. And when you think about what value that actually adds to the earnings capacity of the business, aside from placating shareholders, and and that's the irony is that if you invest a lot of the time with shareholders, they're going to like you, but that's not going to make the business more efficient. uh and it's not
[24:41] going to maximize value for shareholders. So when I think about my time in terms of productivity, the best time that I could spend is focusing on like doing real work and actually focusing on the business, whether that's talking to the engineering team, talking to suppliers, but I mean I I think about that's the it's the most valuable commodity we all have is our time and it's finite and we want to use it as
[25:13] productively as possible. >> So when you're thinking about those financial results, there's obviously many different things that can contribute to that. You can grow revenue, you can cut cost, you can acquire things. There are many stories told about your business, about you, about your approach. Sometimes it is coming from you guys, other times it's coming from others. Do you just ignore kind of all that noise and you just say, "Look, the results will speak for themselves." and you're willing to be
[25:43] misunderstood for periods of time in between or do you think that addressing rumors or you know maybe mis misstatements is important? No, it's uh definitely the former and the I guess like a lot of people want to be liked and so it's easy to get distracted by the noise and so it goes back to your original question in terms of like how
[26:13] would my employees describe me? I hope they don't like me. Like my my father was the the best operator I have ever met. He didn't miss a day of work. Clocked in at 6:00 a.m. 6:00 p.m. Knew every single skew. Knew his costs. Knew his margin. Communicated directly with suppliers. Hated people who were doing desk jobs. Only like the people who were doing physical work. And his employees
[26:45] liked him very much. like his employees really didn't like him. He made his employees cry most of the time because it's business and if they weren't doing a good job, he wasn't shy about it. So, I don't have the the desire to like to be liked. I think that when you want to be liked, I mean, it doesn't take you very far in life. Ultimately, what people are going to like is is is the business is the business doing well.
[27:16] They're going to like the result. So, that's that's what I spend my time on. >> Anyone kind of feels along the way is doesn't really make a difference. >> Where does that come from, you think? Like, why do you not care if people like you? >> Cuz why should I? >> They like me if I do a good job. You know, when you're most liked, you're most like when you're dead. That's when people really like you. >> That is true. You know, my father used
[27:47] to always say, uh, there's nothing more fun than winning. So, if you just win, then everyone has fun, right? >> Yeah. So, when I'm no longer here and I'm six feet under, >> what? >> It doesn't matter. >> It's fair. Probably true. What's a failure that you think you've learned from? The great Ryan Cohen, the almighty power. You probably screwed up once or twice. What do you think you've learned from? >> Well, I've screwed up many times. Um, I
[28:19] mean, investing in GameStop was a screw up, [laughter] >> dude. G give the uh I'm going to give the quick synopsis, then you tell us a failure you learned from. is uh for those that don't know, Ryan kind of bought into GameStop, thought it was fun, then somehow they asked him to be on the board, and then they were like, "Uh, okay, now you're going to be the CEO." And so, fast forward, now he's the CEO of GameStop, but that was not his plan to, uh, to start. >> Yeah. I mean, uh, so that was a mistake. I've made a lot of mistakes,
[28:52] but when I end up uh in a situation like, you know, taking over GameStop, failure wasn't an option. If it was, I was, you know, going to go down with the ship. So, when you're in a position where uh there's no exit hatch, that's when that's when greatness is achieved. That's when you get like maximum uh productivity and results of people is when you're in survival mode and there's
[29:25] no plan B. So, I don't know, maybe I subconsciously put myself in situations like that, but that's when uh that's when you get the best results in life. >> I apologize in advance. You know, a reporter's right in the story right now. Ryan Cohen's biggest failure is investing in GameStop 100%. Um, my last question for you is, uh, what do you want your legacy to be when you're 6 feet under? >> Once you're dead, people pretend to care
[29:57] for like a few days and then everybody moves on. So, you know, my dad would say, uh, you know, you you only, uh, you only go around you only go on the ride once, so you might as well enjoy it. So, I don't know. I I think that legacies are overrated. >> But you're still going to have one. So, what do you want it to be? >> Turning around GameStop. [laughter] >> Here lies the man that turned around GameStop.
[30:30] All right. What can people in this room do to help you other than laugh at all your jokes and enjoy your entertaining interviews? >> Bet against us. [laughter] Here lies the man [laughter] that turned around GameStop after everyone bet against them. >> Right. Exactly. >> All right. I appreciate you doing this. I know you got a very busy schedule, it sounds like. So, uh, [laughter]
[31:00] thanks for taking the time to uh to beam yourself in from uh Texas, Florida, the moon, wherever you are. We'll do it again soon. >> Always a pleasure. >> All right. spot.